Folks, be forewarned, this is going to be a long post...

… Jeff's posting:

Inside, Outside, All Around the Forum Posted By: Jeff Stein <onthedash@bellsouth.net> Date: 11/22/05 21:14 GMT

We will likely be issuing some new Policies / Guidelines for the ChronoCentric Discussion Forums, but I wanted to post a couple of thoughts regarding some of the recent messages. I will post them as my personal opinions; depending on the opinions of other participants, these thoughts may (or may not) become part of these new Policies.

Some random ideas:

• we should not use the forum to describe our grievances / problems with specific transactions, with named sellers (or buyers). I mean, what is the educational purpose? Do people enjoy watching these fights? In my view, this is not the stuff for this type of forum. If you want to see it, go to a wrestling match, watch "Court TV" or chase the ambulances to the see the really ugly wrecks. But it's not the type of discussion that we want here.
• under some circumstances, it might be appropriate and educational to discuss a grievance on a "no-names" basis. how much should you be able to deduct if the watch is not as described? when should you ask for your money back? on a no-names basis, these discussions can be valuable to our readers and to those actually involved in a controversy.
• we should not discuss the reputations or practices of named individuals on this forum. this subject is just too controversial, and lends itself to abuse. there are other "good-guys / bad-guys" websites that exist for this purpose; this is not one of our purposes.
• if you want information about the reputation or recent practices of a particular person, then you should be free to seek this type of information. responses should be delivered by private e-mail, rather than through this forum.
• posting under multiple, fictitous names is wrong and grounds for being banned from the forum . . . no defenses; no excuses; it's just plain wrong.
• we should require civility / courtesy as a condition of participating in this forum.

It's been a demanding couple of days, in terms of this website and my work . . . I have typed this message quickly, and not agonized over the choices of words . . . I will admit that I am not keen on the policing / enforcement aspects of this website; that's not why I collect watches or participate in websites . . . . Still, it seems that we (a) need to discuss this, one more time, and (b) publish some Policies / Guidleines / Rules that will reflect our conclusions.

We are on the verge of some exciting new projects that will greatly enhance this forum. Let's take care of this bit of housekeeping before we make the house even larger.

Thoughts?

Jeff

Hello Jeff,

In the two years and nine months since we opened the OTD Heuer Discussion Forum in February 2003 there have been nearly 11,000 messages posted, over a thousand of which I personally have posted.

In that time, over those posts, I've posted exactly two ADMIN marked messages, only one of which was of a disciplinary nature, before this week. In the last 24 hours I have been tempted to post one yesterday and again one this morning.

Perhaps I should have made my previous message on this topic that even more serious in tone by making it an ADMIN noted message. Instead, I chose to make my post as strident as I could without using the admin option in the spirit of "a moderator should be moderate". Ah well... Perhaps next time...

Here is the key passages of my previous post:

The moment either of you posts a message pertaining to this transaction in this forum and I notice it, there will be repercussions that neither of you will like.

and

Disregard this at your own discretion, at your own (& each other's) peril.

and

I am stating this topic's discussion in this forum will end here and now, one way or another.

Well, while I was sleeping both "combatants" decided to post. Why they didn't contact me or Jeff directly to ask for clarification, I do not know. My email address is a click away in every post I make here, as is Jeff's.

When I woke up and saw the forum, I took immediate action. Before I go on, let me detail my thought process.

I had previously laid my cards on the table. I was not going to let this thread continue as it was proceeding. Why? Let me paste in a couple of things from the forum policies:

“We want to encourage a community environment. As such, this forum is open to a moderate level of related topic discussions.”

My previous post was an clear indication that this thread was not fostering a community environment.

“However, nothing causes more disruption to a forum than discussions about Religion, Politics, or other contentious issues.”

Or a couple of folks who can't keep their private financial disputes discrete.

“For Sale, Want to Buy, etc. Type Posts

The OnTheDash discussion forum is for exchange of helpful information--not for your use in selling things you have or for promoting specific sellers of things. No 'for sale,' 'want to buy,' advertisements or direct links to dealer sites are allowed in discussion forum messages.”

We didn't have a passage in the guidelines about squabbling over transactions in the discussion forum.

Well, we're going to have some new policies now!

In 2 years, 9 months and roughly 3 days, and 2 previous ADMIN marked messages... needing to post 2 more in less than 12 hours is simply not acceptable Gentlemen.

It's not that I haven't been in or seen similar situations in the past, I have... But this forum is not where people are going to air their disputes to the detriment of other participants. Neither of us (Jeff or I) are, or plan to be, referee's or arbitrators to people's financial transactions or disputes. We provide this site/forum/our participation to share our enthusiam for the topic at hand, not to be draged into other peoples fights.

I provided both of the combatants with a single shared raft... If they cooperated with one another or left each other alone, they wouldn't get wet... However, if they didn't they'd both end up in the water. As everyone knows, cooperation or ignoring one another didn't happen here this morning...

So here is the situation as it currently stands, just so everyone knows...

• This morning after seeing the posts overnight, I took the immediate action of blocking direct posting privledges by the two combatants in the forums here.
  • When I said discussion of this topic was going to end, I meant it.
• They can read the site, and post, however their messages have to be approved by a moderator before they will be seen by anyone, until Jeff and I decide to restore their privledges,
  • IF we decide to restore their privledges...
  • I can't speak for Jeff, but I check the "Posts awaiting Approval" section once, maybe twice a week at most...
    • So until Jeff or I decide to let them off of that "Approve first" list they may or may not see any of their posts make it to public view...
      • At this point, this thread has dampened my enthusiasm to approve posts in a timely fashon. Just so you all know. =-{
• I have not deleted any messages as I am loathe to delete messages because I like to have an electronic paper trail of people's behaviour(s).
  • If people behave badly, why not let everyone see what they did to get in their situation?
    • I've also made PDF documents for future reference should these two decide to start up again.
• The combatants can consider this/these action(s) a "time out"...
  • Perhaps after Thanksgiving or in a couple of weeks Jeff and I might consider removing their names from the "probationary posting" list,
    • Hopefully, then they will:
      • be a little more civil towards each other,
      • be more considerate to the other regulars in the forum, and
      • stop making so bloody much work for Jeff and I.
        • If they do not, we'll go to Plan B...
          • which is less moderate than Plan A...
            • 8-o....

  This thread has taken an enjoyable lark that Jeff, Derek and I launched a couple of years ago and turned it into an incredible waste of our time that's less than enjoyable or pleasant.

  It is simply not going to be the norm around here.

  Sincerely,