: BTW, Donahue went to Brown. ??? Brown?
: UPS?

Brown University. He graduated with an engineering degree. He also had polio as a boy.

: I was never a big fan of Foyt either, but I do
: respect his accomplishments.

I'm talking about road racing. And I don't think that Foyt was much of a road racer.

I didn't say Shelby wasn't good, just not great.

I think that Andretti is a top 15 of all time F1 driver. Gurney is top 25 and except for Moss and Gilles Villenueve, perhaps the best driver not to win the title. Hill and Revson a notch or two down.

I think that Donahue's ranking is on the basis of potential.
I think he was just as good as Andretti talent wise and had an amazing technical background. I think if he had survived and you put him with Lotus in 1978, he wins the championship.

And remember, the Penske car was good enough to win a race with John Watson.

: At that moment, (1978) no American had even competed
: in the tour de france (jock boyer did so a
: couple years later IIRC) I'm sure
: American's competed, just never contended...

No, I mean that literally. Jonathan Boyer was the first American to compete in the Tour de France in 1981. Two years later Greg Lemond won the world championship and five years later the first of his three tours de france (and would have likely won two more if he didn't get shot.) Lance, of course, won seven more.

best
allen