http://www.chronocentric.com/forums/heuer/index.cgi?noframes;read=28111

Looking back at that watch now, and specifically at the Carrera text and Heuer shield, it really does say redial to me. I was trying to say as much at the time without being blunt, but maybe it got lost in translation.

The watch you link to is a different watch, looking at the Heuer shield and Carrera text. So, we have now seen two of these. For me, it doesn't bode particularly well that the two examples have notably different Heuer shields and Carrera text from each other, whereas the Carreras we know have pretty stable text throughout its life from 1964 to ~1971. I also find it odd that both have the same box with the confusing image that appears to verify that 3641s had Carrera dials, and in both cases the box is very crisp.

Let's look at the history of the 3641 in a bit more detail.

In original form, it predates the Carrera (as you can tell from the lower reference number than the Carrera 45's 3647) and was effectively an economy alternative to the steel-cased 404:

This catalogue dates from 1962, which could well be the year in which it is also introduced - it doesn't appear in earlier catalogues, unlike the 404 and 2444. At this point it used pretty much the same dial furniture as the 2444 precursor to the Carrera 12 2447, which itself had had layout revisions that year. It continued in this form for some time until, at some later date I haven't been able to put my finger on during research but seems to be after the Carrera's launch in 1964, the 3641 adopts Carrera hands and dial typography. As did Jarl, I only managed to find pictured examples of 3641s in this configuration in catalogues dating from around 1967:

It's important to note that, throughout the 3641's lifetime, it retained a number of characteristics that distinguish it from the Carrera as we know it:

- the case was chrome-plated base metal, never steel (this is common to most of Heuer's economy models and is largely what makes it possible for them to be economy in the first place),

- the 3641 never has the 1/5 second internal bezel that was one of the innovations Heuer was proclaiming in its new Carrera advertising - instead the scale is painted directly on the dial edge,

- the case shape is different, with rounded lugs as opposed to the Carrera's iconic angular ones, and

- the markers in this late version, though plain steel like an early Carrera's, are less detailed without the bevelled ends.

Now the Carrera 12 Dato doesn't have the internal bezel either (it doesn't have room on its dial!) nor does it have exactly the Carrera case. In fact, it too predates the Carrera proper but in this example, it would appear that Heuer saw the benefit in associating its triple calendar watch with the very successful Carrera and hence the triple calendar became a Carrera too (without much effort other than amending literature, as the Carrera name of course doesn't actually appear anywhere on the 12 Dato).

But what would be the benefit of associating the economy 3641 with the Carrera? Isn't it more likely that it would cannabalise sales of the more profitable 3647 if both were marked Carrera on the dial? After all, the movements are the same between the two watches.

The 3641 is a nice watch in its own right, as this example of Jarl's shows:

but it only makes sense if Heuer keeps it discrete from the Carrera, as otherwise the overlap becomes too significant. Some people will always want to save money and opt for the economy version but if both were Carreras it would be commercially ill-advised at best and at worst the Carrera 45 3647 would be dead in the water. I'm not saying every Heuer decision of the period was commercially logical, but this one seems to me to be a classic no-brainer.

That photo of Jarl's watch demonstrates something quite clearly - the Heuer text within the shield always has a gap between it and the edge of the shield, and that gap is consistent between each letter and the shield. Now, study any mixture of Heuer chronographs from the period and you'll see that they struggle to get the white text on a black dial quite as fine as the black text on a silver/white/standard dial but the general point holds true that there is a consistent gap between Heuer and the shield.

Looking at the watch in question, the text seems a bit too big for the shield for me and I'm not entirely sure from the relatively small photos whether the gap above the Es is the same as it is below them, or that the gap below each E is the same. If the Heuer shield has in fact been redone, would it not have been possible to add the Carrera text at the same time? Not blaming the seller, I am sure quite a few people would be tempted by this as an unusual Carrera but to me it is a redial.

Caveat emptor is the usual saying, but I think for these there also has to be some onus on the sellers to show that the watch is genuine too. I have seen very few 3641s but many hundreds of Carreras, backed by documentary evidence from brochures, sales lists, adverts etc. This, along with the simple sales logic of keeping the two lines separate, makes me doubt that any 3641 was marked Carrera ex-factory and I would be looking for very strong proof to make me change my mind.