One irony re the use of "Derek Bell" to describe these Autavias: It is creating confusion between one of the very rare 1163 Autavias (low production, early execution, etc.) and the most common 1163 Autavia of all, the "Viceroy". As the usage has oozed from the narrow category (to describe one execution of the 1163 MH) to the broader category (any black / red 1163 Autavia), we are seeing some $1,500 watches carrying the $3,500 label.

I suppose the more that we discuss it the better . . . maybe the next guy being offered a "Viceroy" that is described as a "Derek Bell" will use Google, and find this discussion!!

By the way: I believe that McQueen actually chose his Monaco, from a table on which there were other non-Heuer chronographs to choose from (Omega, Rolex, etc.), but that is another story for another day!!

Jeff

+++++++++++++++++++

: Again, I kinda agree, but on the other hand I don't.
: Saying that the Monaco was product placement is, well, technically
: correct. But, in essence, so is is any kind of sponsorship, like
: with Jo Siffert, and any other driver that was given a Heuer
: because the race team was sponsored by them. They may well have
: been paid to wear them. They may even have not liked them (Hard
: to believe I know!). Heuers history is deeply entwined with
: motorsport through product placement. Yes, I know that the early
: (non-wrist) timers were 'race timing tools', but still, it was
: used eventually as advertising to sell their wrist watches to jo
: public.
: Why would the case of the Siffert be any different? And this bring
: us back to the original issue - namely people mis-naming a
: watch. The Siffert was a particular watch, but there were many
: 'white dial' versions afterwards, they are accepted to be called
: Sifferts.

: Interestingly, the drivers that we say 'shouldn't' be closely
: associated (Bellof, Bell, Hill etc etc) actually chose to
: wear them. Not through sponsorship, not being paid to do so or
: told to do so. Surely there is something in that, something more
: honest and respectful? (Same way McQueen chose a Sub 5513) You
: can't have it both ways.

: I think Heuer has a grand history in motorsport, and with the
: drivers wearing them, why should that be ignored. The thing is..
: it's us, the collectors, that have given these watches their
: names. They are not official, they have no real meaning only
: amongst us. I saw a Siffert sell on ebay a week or so ago, the
: vendor clearly wasn't a collector, as he stated in his ad
: something along the lines of "I believe this is a Siffert
: although this name isn't on the dial or anywhere on the
: watch".
: I think we should embrace Heuers association with motorsport and
: the association with these drivers. The importance associated
: with the name is down to us.

: If I'm writing about a particular watch, and I use a drivers name -
: it helps the reader know exactly which model. ie. "Blah
: blah blah, Autavia 1163v "Viceroy/Graham Hill" blah
: blah blah. You know exactly which model I mean, I wouldn't be
: 'christening' it with this name, but helping a fellow Heuerist
: know exactly which one I mean. It means nothing to a non
: Heuerist, and this, I feel is great. The history, the drivers,
: the sport.. it's all wrapped up in one easy name, and this, I
: believe should be fully embraced, and we should relax about it.

: Stewart
: PS. I admit, I don't know of the full story of Siffert & Heuer,
: so please accept my apologies if there was something deeper
: about his Heuer sponsorship/association.
: And, please inform me!!