: Putting aside the oddities of the auction, let me ask a couple
: of questions about the watch itself. Is it unusual to see a
: Cal 12 Modena? I seem to recall that most of the Modenas that we
: have seen have been Cal 15s. If the theory has been that Heuer
: started making "Modenas", and then changed the name to
: "Monza" around 1977, then this one has a really high
: serial number, at 393 660. We know that the serial numbers do
: get a bit jumbled, but 393xxx is far higher than most of the
: numbers that we see for 1977 (and the other Monzas). Could have
: been a mistake in the eBay listing? Any other explanation for
: this high SN? Always good fun to piece together this
: information!!

: Jeff

: ++++++++++++++++++++++++++

:

A lot of the points under http://www.chronocentric.com/forums/heuer/index.cgi?page=1;md=read;id=31055 and following are germane to this. Worth noting also my point:

I believe the Cal 12 Monza with the Monza name on the dial was only shown in the 1978 catalogues - after that, it was the no-name "economy" version and before that only Cal 15s are shown.

The movements in the Monza/Modena are chronologically the opposite of what we expect, in that the Cal 15s come first and are followed by the 12. So high serials aren't so much out of the question. I have two Carrera Twins with 391xxx serials, one with a 393xxx but lower than this Modena and a Carrera Quartz with 392xxx. Now the quartz time-only Carreras don't even go on sale until 1979 so that puts this Modena at or after that date, which also makes a high serial more understandable.

I think trying to find a date when the Modena becomes a Monza, or vice versa, is the red herring here. To me it looks much more to have the hallmarks of a watch that is sold under different names in different markets, possibly/probably because of trademark clashes. Given that we find "Modena" in a German catalogue in 77/8 when at the same time a US catalogue shows a Monza, it looks like Germany is one of the, and perhaps the only, market(s) where it is called a Modena. That also makes sense of why we see Modenas typically with either a Monza or unnamed caseback - if the same watch is sold almost everywhere else as a Monza, it's not worth retooling the caseback to say something different for a single (or limited number) market.

I know Jeff found a Modena in the US, but it's not really any stretch to think that that example might have found its way there from Germany. We see watches with the Cuanillon C marks all over the place now, not just in their native Switzerland, for example. Ditto the watches with identifiable (and locatable) jewellers marked on the dial.

It all makes sense to me at least when you look at it like this.