: John,
: It's the same story the world over.. and it's down to us watch
: geeks to try to figure it out.
: Funnily enough, unless there is bone-fide proof of a watches
: originality, then most watches histories are unknown. Who's to
: say that a dial wasn't replaced by Heuer in the 70's while at
: service, or had hands replaced etc etc. Or if you got all the
: correct parts for a 1163 Orange 'Orange boy' and put it together
: - then who could tell - no-one.

: I guess it's why communities like OTD etc are so important, and
: it's about trust. There are many people on here that I would buy
: a watch from unseen - yet I've been offered great watches in the
: past from 'unknowns' and I've turned them down. Buy the seller,
: as they say.

Stewart,

I really like what you said above. It would be difficult to put it any better.

What has brought this to my mind is partly that I am working on a presentation on collecting which will be delivered at an NAWCC chapter meeting in a few weeks. I am going to begin the presentation by talking about the fact that I have been asked over the last 20+ years to examine and appraise the collections of many old friends or friends of friends who died and left their heirs with hundred or many times thousands of watches. Without exception, upon examination of these collections I find them full of mistakes and fakes and junk. Many collectors...?most collectors? are not much more than accumulators. I even looked at the great collection of a very famous Geek Collector which was full of really great watches but in great part watches which he himself had "improved". The nice thing about this collection is that each watch came with a card which detailed everything this famous collector had done to the watch.

In my world there is an ongoing argument about what constitutes a fake or a frankenwatch. Everybody draws a different line. Many times the line seems to be drawn more with profit or protection of value in mind. We all know that there are not really many original and fine condition examples of the scarce watches we want available on the market. That is why the really good stuff fetches such unbelievable prices. As long as this is true there will be unscrupulous people out there who are willing to "Fix Up" lesser goods and make them into what the market wants and there will be collectors who want the goods so much that they will make mistakes....consciously or not.

JohnCote