:

: New TAG HEUER Ayrton Senna Limited Edition
: Posted By: Patrick Date: 4/25/05 02:32 GMT

: I have a question for anyone that can
: help.Today I saw at the mall a beautiful Tag
: Heuer chronograph Ayrton Senna Limited
: Edition (2004 exactly are made). I am a huge
: watch enthusiasm Er, you're either a huge
: watch enthusiast or you have a huge
: amount of watch enthusiasm... =) Gotcha!

: (particularly of TAG HEUER)but I wonder if
: one day by purchasing that particular piece
: I can make money out of it ( in 10, 15
: years…). It depends...

: Can you really buy watches as an investment?
: Thank you in advance Certainly. You can
: buy watches as an investment, like all
: investments they can be good investments,
: bad investments or indifferent investments.

: Patrick

: Re: New TAG HEUER Ayrton Senna Limited
: Edition *LINK*

: Posted By: Derek Ziglar (zOwie)

: Date: 4/25/05 02:41 GMT

: In Response To: New TAG HEUER Ayrton
: Senna Limited Edition (Patrick)

: : Can you really buy watches as an
: investment?

: For the most part, no, not successfully.
: Sure, people with great knowledge, instinct
: or luck can amazingly make money off just
: about anything. Generally yes, this is
: true...

: But luxury watches are *depreciating* assets
: -- meaning they normally lose value over
: time. So unless you really, really know what
: you are doing (or really, really trust your
: luck) it is waaaaaay smarter to invest in
: things that generally go *up* in value.
: Generally yes.

: Here's the thing...

: For the most part most luxury (and even economy
: watches like Swatches) are mass produced and
: like Derek says the minute they hit the
: customer's hands they lose 35% of their
: value if not more. There is a rule of thumb
: that I learned from David Greenspan that
: typically on-line watch dealers will offer
: 55% of MSRP on a minty watch and will settle
: to sell at 65% of MSRP with the difference
: being their margin. So, if you buy a watch
: new at an authorized dealer at $3,000 one
: should only expect about $1,650 if you were
: immediately to offer it to one of the
: plethora of on-line dealers and those
: dealers would probably list the watch at
: $2,200-2,400 hoping to get about $1,950 for
: it. Now this above is for current models and
: recently discontinued models... After a
: watch is discontinued it might have a burst
: of activity where collectors who had meant
: to purchase an example chase down the
: remaining examples available, and the price
: might peak for a short period of time. After
: that, the value of most watches will fall
: for a number of years when they aren't worth
: anywhere near what they were when they were
: new or readily available. Then over time,
: usually at least 10-20 years, but possibly
: longer, they will start to rebound and
: become more valuable as collector's start
: getting interested in them. So investing in
: watches is typically stupid in the short and
: medium term, and typically the only hopes
: one has in getting a decent return on
: investment is when their values are on the
: rise usually when they are well in the
: "Vintage" catagory.

: Some watches have a reputation of holding their
: values well. Rolex in particular has a
: reputation of holding their value over the
: years. As long as you haven't trashed the
: watch, if you bought a Submariner 5 years
: ago, you would likely be able to get your
: money out of it today and in the future. In
: fact the most common Rolex models: The Sub,
: 'Dweller, the GMT's, etc. frequently have a
: resale value a couple hundred dollars short
: of what a new one sells for. So if you
: bought a Sub 10 years ago at what was the
: going rate in 1994, with price increases you
: might get a sizeable chunk of change over
: what you paid (because of inflation) if you
: sold it and because Rolex has increased it's
: prices over the years, you might only be a
: couple hundred short of the purchase price
: of a new one.

: As for making money... What Derek says in brief
: is true... If you have a good grasp of
: knowledge or good instincts, or are lucky
: you can make money on watches over time
: . Vintage watches I purchased routinely for
: $500 and under four or five years ago now go
: for $800 and up through $1,200... Some
: watches that I purchased for $1,000-$1,800
: even shorter periods of time ago) routinely
: go for $2,000, $3,000, $4,000 and more too.
: A number of factors are at work here too.

: First off I'd buy the best possible watch at as
: low of a price as I could, I'd know as much
: about the watch as I could and the reasons
: why it was desirable. At the time
: (1999-2002) vintage watches were plentiful
: on eBay and on the internet and prices were
: reasonable. In the mean time the number of
: websites and hence available information on
: many different types of vintage watches has
: increased greatly over the past couple of
: years. When I started out, I hadn't written
: anything, Jeff hadn't either, and Derek had
: only started. When there is more information
: out there people can research the subject
: better and feel more comfortable purchasing.
: Also, in the past couple of years "the
: herd" as I call the set of watches
: available for purchase has thinned out
: greatly. When I first started collecting
: there might be 3 or 4 pages of Autavias on
: eBay at any given time, today it's very
: uncommon to see a full page of listings. I
: remember when were 6 or more pages of
: Speedmaster listings, today two pages is
: more common, sometimes, barely two pages
: sometimes maybe just over two pages.

: So if you bought a CK2915-1 for $4,000-$5,000
: five years ago, yeah, you could easily
: double, triple your investment or even more.
: But if you bought a 1973 Speedmaster
: Moonwatch for $900 in 2000 your moonwatch
: would probably be worth between $800 and
: $1,000 on eBay today. It's a gamble. Like
: Las Vegas, you can do things that increase
: your odds, but you have to be careful, good
: and luck has to go your way.

: For more info on resale and investment, see
: the Buyer's Guide here at Chronocentric:

:
: http://chronocentric.com/watches/buyersguide.shtml
: Do I think the Senna will be a good
: investment over time?

: If it's a mechanical movement, is well cared
: for and everything goes well, you should be
: able to get your original investment out of
: it. I don't know if it would keep up with
: inflation or the cost of living, or if you
: could get any return on your investment
: after adjusting for those items. If you put
: that money into a Rolex, chances are you'd
: get your original investment back and more
: nearly up to the amount a new example would
: cost you. Most watches will either not
: return your initial investment or only just
: return your original investment, but very
: few watches will be worth more or
: significantly more than initial investment.

: Seriously, buy watches because you enjoy doing
: so. Buying watches as an investment is
: probably not your best investment/retirement
: strategy. Invest in property, energy
: futures, tax-free municipal bonds, you'll
: likely end up with a better return on your
: investment than buying a new watch hoping
: you'll make money on the deal.

: And remember nearly all of this pertains to
: LONG-TERM investment. In the short term,
: unless you buy with the intention of selling
: to a waiting buyer, you're not going to make
: any money.

: Good Hunting!

: -- Chuck

:

:

:

: Chuck Maddox

: Chronographs, like most finer things
: in life, only improve with time...
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