<<< I don't know where Chuck got his information from

I own 4 of the Orfina Porsche Design 5100's: 2 PVD Black 5100's, 2 Stainless Steel 5100's, and a pair of Orfina Porsche Design 7750's. I also own 3 IWC Porsche Design chronographs (all of which use Valjoux 7750 based movements). I don't own any Porsche Design's manufactured by Eterna at this time. I haven't found one that interests me thus far at the right price. I've only been following the Porsche Design models for about 20 to 25 years or so. I also have a body of work (click on the link in the footer of this post) that is freely available for public usage and scrutiny. It's a fair statement that I know what I'm talking about.

but this watch is 100% original

Absolutely and laughably incorrect.

and the real article and not a redial at all!

No one, and I mean NO ONE ever said it was a redial although that is certainly questionable... It may be a "real watch" but this watch is not genuine (Orfina, IWC or Eterna) Porsche Design chronograph. The ROTOR is not even a signed Orfina Porsche Design! I took the back off of one of my 5100 PD Orfina's for this shot below:

Please note the serial number at top with 5100 promenently next to it. Note the Orfina Watch Company inscription, and further comfirmation of the movement type on the rotor. ALL of these elements are missing from the Franken PD from Singapore. Here is the Black PVD Orfina Porsche Design that uses this movement:

This is what Orfina made, not that other thing.

If you check with Porche Design and get a reply from them that it has not made this watch before, then I accept your judgement but not from individuals who happens to be "Experts" in the field.

If a dealer claims 100% originality it is his burden to prove that fact, not me nor the buyer's. Where is the providence for this piece? Where is the documentation that proves it to be 100% original? The seller's watch in question:

IS NOT Orfina Porsche Design. Nor is it IWC or Eterna made Porsche Design because neither IWC or Eterna have ever used the Lemania 5100 (or 5012) movement in their watches. As far as that goes Orfina never used the 5012 movement, they used the 5100 which is where the dial for this franken comes from. Here is the signed back from a genuine Orfina Porsche Design:

Please note the pd logo, and Porsche Design enscription. I'm sure the seller will next impune that these markings can be faked. Well, the markings from my four 5100 Orfina Porsche Design's are consistant with one another and were purchased from four different individuals separated by geography. One can't have a 5012 with a 5100 dial unless someone has retrofit the parts to the movement to make it work, in other words, using the techniques of Dr. Frankenstein to make live something that was never made that way originally.

When the seller claims “this watch is 100% original and the real article and not a redial at all!” it is his burden to explain all of the inconsistancies that have been brought up. If it's “100% original and the real article and not a redial” prove it...

He discussed the #5012 movement not being used as a 24 hour register but shows a totally different watch to the one I have.

The Mistral Timing is not a totally different watch than the one this gentleman insists is a genuine original:

Same case, same style pushers, same style crown, same style of plastic rotatable bezel, same plexi crystal., etc. I don't doubt that the 5012 data plate is original to the watch too. Just that Porsche Design had anything to do with this Frankenwatch.

Obviously the watch he has is not the same as the one I offered for auction so where is the comparison.

The comparision is between an original watch (the Mistral) and a franken watch (the one pictured in Reza's post... One is watch is genuine (Mistral), the other is Franken (the Singapore watch). And I'll give you a real easy to understand clue. The one that is original has a dial and a movement who's configuration that matches what Lemania produced, the one that doesn't is not and can not be original. It is really that simple. It's really difficult to provide a watch that is the exact same as the sellers example, because no firm has ever produced a model with such a mis-mash of parts.

Look at the dial, it is so obvious that it is a 100% original dial and not some redial.

No one said it was a redial! Look at the picture of the dial on my 5100 Orfina (click here to open that graphic in a new window) and scrutinize the dial and follow my narative in the next paragraph:

No one said it was a redial! However if anyone with common sense looks at the dial and scrutinizes the luminious on the 5, 10 and 55 minute points you'll note that two of the luminous markers have been retouched (the one at 5 and 10 minutes) by hand, and the marker at 55 appears to be missing. Neither is consistant with style and manner of application notable on the other markers on the dial. Certain other of the markers look questionable as well. Most notably at 4 o'clock, 6 o'clock and 7 o'clock. They have none of the consistancy one would expect from a Orfina, IWC or Eterna produced Porsche Design watch. Even one that is 20 or 25 years old. Does this seller really really insist that this dial is 100% genuine original as from the factory? Who was on quality control that shift? Hmmm?

I respect Chuck if he is the so-called expert but even I have not seen all the Rolexes in the world and I am suppose to be someone whom many people come to for "professional advise" on Rolexes.

I'm certain I haven't seen all the Rolex's in the world either, but we aren't talking about Rolex either are we?

I would have passed a comment like "watch is a model that i have not seen before so I cannot comment on authenticity".

The seller also stated "but this watch is 100% original" earlier. Fine. Then produce an ad, sales sheet, catalog or instruction manual from Orfina, IWC or Eterna (the only three firms to have ever produced Porsche Design watches) with this case/bezel configuration) showing this particular model of watch.. I can't, I've never seen one, and I doubt that any firm that produced Porsche Design watches ever produced this combination of case, bezel, crystal, hands, dial, movement, rotor, case back. To my knowledge, experience and research none of the three firms ever did produce such a model.

Chuck should base his comments after closer scrutiny of the dial, movement and case and not just from a picture. >>> Time Antiques.

This dealer should base his comments on what is fact... 1) the 5100 movement provides a 24-hour register at 12 o'clock on the dial. 2) the 5012 movement OMITS the 24-hour register at 12 o'clock that the 5100 has. 3) one can make a 5012 movement mimic a 5100 by canabalizing the parts from a 5100. A (factory) original watch can have an original 5100 movement or an original 5012 movement, but not a watch that has elements of both and still be original. It's laughable to think that any of the firms that made Porsche Design watches would produce a watch such as this one, or ship it. It's frustrating that people attempt to peddle as original, genuine and real like this obvious and frankly pathetic kludge. I have nothing to gain or lose on the sale of this watch.

The seller is obviously trying to sell something.

Were it a genuine original watch, I have no problem with it.

Were it a parts watch being sold as a parts watch, I have no problem.

But in this case, this watch did not come from the factory in this form. When a seller claims 100% originality and genuine-ness from his product the burden of proof is on the seller, not the buyer or me. If it's a genuine piece, produce an ad, a sales brochure, catalog or instruction manual from a firm who made Porsche Design (Orfina, IWC and Eterna) that pictures this watch and confirms his story. I will state I was wrong if that sort of documentation can be produced and verified. I doubt that any such documentation can be produced.

Sincerely,

-- Chuck

P.S. I have spent a significant amount of personal time and effort to express the basis of my comments. I expect genuine provenence from the seller not mearly denials and assertions in support of his statements. He says it's 100% genuine. Fine, produce documentation proving that. The ball is firmly in his court.