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I agree about 95% with Charles...
In Response To: Forgive and Forget ()

Forgive and Forget Posted By: Charles Rush Date: 2/16/05 20:03 GMT

In Response To: Heuer Carrera NOS on Ebay (florian)

Hello everyone. It has been awhile since I visited ON THE DASH

Welcome Back Charles!

and this is the first thing that draws my attention.

And thanks for taking the time to respond. I believe I agree with you about 95% on your thoughts:

Having read the entire discussion I am having trouble understanding why there is any discussion at all concerning this Carrera. It appears that the watch is not stolen and has been paid for and legally belongs to the seller. He has the right to sell it on eBay and if his name is slandered or his auction is damaged by this posting then something is amiss and I would hope that Jeff corrects it.

I agree with with regards to slander (actually Libel in this instance... more below) if this is the case and such can be proven. As for damage I believe that is hard to determine if any has occured and even more difficult to prove it much less to what extent.

In regards to some of Charles' points...

Absolutely the seller has the right to put the watch up for sale on eBay or elsewhere.

Slander pertains to spoken statements, Libel is the correct term for printed statements...

Libel, or false publication of information in statements to bring a party in disrepute that is proven to have been made with malice, is not acceptable. I'd point out that it doesn't apply to expressed opinions but rather statements.

However, in this particular case looking at what the seller said via email to florian, it seems that the seller's updated account about the situation which transpired with his (now-former) girlfriend meshes with the depiction of events from florian's viewpoint fairly well.

People do have the privledge to share their experiences with one another even if they are not flattering to a third party, as long as the account(s) being shared are an accurate representations of what they experienced. In this instance florian related that he had a less than smooth transaction with the current owner/seller of this Carrera.

I have had gold coins that I have sold on eBay to International Buyers also come up missing, due to Customs or Postal Services delays. The Buyers would always contact me requesting either another coin or reimbursement. Later the coins would finally clear customs and everyone was satisfied.

Agreed, buyers and sellers should be patient with the sometimes lax delivery of overseas (and even domestic) parcels as often the human factor causes delays. Two examples from my personal experience...
  • I purchased a watch from a German seller, it didn't show for well over two months, it turns out that he actually managed shipped it to him self somehow via surface ship... One day the parcel appeared in his mail box undelivered two plus months after he sent it. He sent it a second time and it arrived within a week. But is was a nervious three months for me.
  • In the second instance I purchased a Carrera bracelet from a seller in the Netherlands. It never arrived, and in fact I have no reason to believe it was ever shipped. To my knowledge it has never turned up anywhere. The seller eventually refunded most of my money but the bracelet is somewhere between the seller's hand and ??? It could have been stolen, lost, under some postal van seat, on the seller's wrist or whereever my mismatched socks end up. But it was never delivered.

Sometimes deals take a long time to finally resolve themselves, and they don't necessarily always turn out great or where you expected or hoped, but that's the risk one takes. Any non-face to face (and many face to face) transactions are fraught with peril. We each have to determine how much risk we are willing to accept for each piece and live with that decision whatever it is.

If I were interested in this Carrera, which I am not,

I'm interested, but not enough to hold off on other purchases (some elective, some not) at this time.

I would be bidding on it and wouldn't worry about any pasted misunderstanding.

This is the an area where Charles and I differ slightly... I would consider what I've learned here as part of the situation regarding this particular offering and I would factor it in with the other factors I consider when I determine any offer/bid I might place. Sometimes I will give such a greater weight than I probably should, on other occasions I might overlook or minimize significant concerns. It's a gut feeling sort of factor. Any two people will address them differently and in a way that is attuned to their individual experience/needs/wants. I'm not sure I would call it worry but I would consider it as one factor among many.

As it is stated in the Bible "I forget what lies behind and look forward to what lies ahead".

I guess I differ in that I'll consider the past when planning the future. Certainly anecdotal stories are taken with a grain of salt, the size of said grain depends on many things among them my perceptions.

Which means forget the pasted and get on with the future. Have a Christian spirit and guard you mouth. God Bless you all, Charles Rush.

The account that the seller sent to florian (the now-former girlfriend dealie) does sound plausable and I'm certain that all of us have had pieces of mail accidentally get misplaced or mis-sorted without our knowledge.

I would factor that in too were I bidding on this piece.

When we elect to do distant transactions (mail, phone, internet, ebay, etc.) we all walk the region between recklessness and over-caution. The aim is always to be cautious to avoid the troublesome deals while not passing up any good ones. Without some risk there is no gain, with too much risk there is often loss.

Thanks to everyone for sharing their insights. I'm excited for the evenual caretaker of this vintage Carrera for she looks like a great piece! I hope for a satisfactory outcome for all who are interested.

-- Chuck

Chuck Maddox

Chronographs, like most finer things in life, only improve with time...
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