zOwie Omega Discussion Forum

But I will digress...

In order to avoid a rather lengthy response I will try to keep this as short as possible.

"the design of the Bond-era SMP dial is borrowed directly from the Rolex catalog!"

Actually the Design is more reminiscent of SM300's of the past, but you are correct in saying Omega is doing a good job of trying to emulate some of the Styling aspects of Rolex, especially with their move away from the Bond Bracelet to that of the Speedy Style.

"I'm still not seeing a difference in quality to justify a $1795 price tag on the SMP, versus $3500 for the Submariner and $4500 for the Seadweller"

Well since I dont know what neck of the woods you are from I will assume your from the US, and if that is the case when quoting MSRP please try to be as accurate as possible, Sub is now $3800 with SD being closer to $4000.

"with the Helium release valve... don't forget that)."

Honestly I find a He valve on a Watch only rated at 300m a Gimmick and a novelty, Not to mention it is manual, why on earth would you include a manual valve when the technology exists for an auto relief...on a watch in a similar price bracket to boot (Breitling SOP) if nothing more than to get attention by it sticking out.

"I'll say it again... most of what is being said
pertains to style; Point for point, material
for material, and feature for feature (feel
free to disregard dollar for dollar), the
SMP keeps pace with the Submariner, and is
close on the heels of the Seadweller. It's
just THAT class of watch. Like I said, 'it
runs with the likes of Rolex, and is in a
different class than Tag.' As I will demonstrate:"

Not exactly true....and if you read my initial post and comprehended it you would see that I said Omega Auto watches are in a higher class than Tag, but their Quartz IMHO is about on par as really all your comparing is the case and bracelet...

But in regards to Rolex,

Rolex uses White Gold Boardered Indicies instead of just applying indicies made of luminous material as Omega does
If Applicable Sprayed or Hand Painted Hands instead of Dipped like Omega (Explorer II for example of Rolex)
Screwed Links
Higher Grade Stainless Steel, 904 for Rolex 316 for Omega (No major difference other than Nickle content and price)
Also the After Sales service was a biggie for me, something Omega in the US just does not seem to handle well, and I really did not want to send my watch overseas for repair.

"Not sure what you mean by coarse and cheap (I agree about the Tag,actually, but Omegas, at least mine, are finished quite differently from Tags). I can't speculate as to the circumstances that allowed you to sell your Tag for 'almost' what you paid, but I would guess that this experience is not typical. You ask if this can be done with Omega, well, YES; Omegas retain their resale value very well. But any watch purchased at or around it's median market value can easily be resold for the same price in the same market. I see second-hand SMPs sell on eBay for $900-1100 everyday. If I purchase one in that range (which is conceivable, even new), I could sell it for just the same. I actually purchased a pristine second-hand SMP in a pawn shop for $762, with all papers, etc (robbed him blind). I could have sold it immediately (perhaps on eBay) at a profit, but it would be silly for me to say that all Omegas appreciate in value, based only on my single, unusual experience. You seem to like Rolex so very much, but as a percentage of median RETAIL price, the resale value of a steel Rolex is roughly the same as Omega, if not a little worse."

Gawd this was Long.....

The Contour of the Metal on the Older Bond Style bracelet and the brushed Surfaces gave me the same feeling as when I used to wear my Tag Heuer, it is hard to explain and I am sure it is highly subjective, but the feel of the metal was just not as nice IMHO as that of what Rolex uses. It is possibly the finishing as the finish on my GF's tag heuer SEL is excellent, but the brushed surfaces on the SMP just did not appeal to me whereas on the Rolex they did. Personal preference I guess.

I did get my Tag at a good disount, and if I had not your correct in saying I would have taken a bath on the deal, but the same can be said for Omega, if you Don't get it for at least 25% off your going to take a dive on resale, least more money lost than I would want to deal with..however I do not buy watches to be investments or worry about resale, rather to be worn instead. I ahve yet to see a used SMP selling on Ebay for $900, a few on Timezone for that much but usually I have seen them go for $700-$850...why spend $900 when you can get one New from Ashford.

: -- Markers, dial, red hands, whatever. You're
: speaking mostly about personal style
: preference. I could write pages on how I
: prefer the bevels and contrasts on the Omega
: cases, but will let it suffice just to say
: that you say 'To-may-to' and I say
: 'To-mah-to'. Don't know why you're down on
: friction pins, but Rolex certainly shouldn't
: throw stones at Omega where bracelets are
: concerned (an adage about glass houses
: springs to mind).

"I don't know exactly what you mean by 'non
AC', possibly 'non automatic chronometer'?
I'm wondering what you mean, here. The SMP
in styled right after the Submariner! The
only differences I see are blue face vs. black (Omega makes a black face version, too), the indices on the dial are virtually identical to the Sub, the hands are differently designed, there are smoother scallops on the bezel, vice the many small 'teeth' of the Sub's bezel, and the SMP has a fancier bracelet and clasp, while the Sub has the cyclops magnifier; All things considered, these are two VERY similar watches. But, regardless of where you shop, there is no 'rivalry' where price is concerned: MSRP on a Sub is in the neighborhood of $3500+, Seadweller around $4500+. To get an Omega anywhere near that price range, you need to add solid gold centerlinks or a solid titanium case/bracelet, or add a chronograph complications."

Ok My bad here, thinking that this was an Omega Enthusiasts Message board I made the Assumption that Everyone would know what the Non AC SMP is...

To Clarify, the NON AC SMP is the NON AMERICA'S CUP SMP...which has Applied and Boardered Hour Indices, an Applied Omega Logo on the Dial, and A Solid white Gold Yachtmaster Style Bezel..with a MSRP of nearly $2600.

Styling of the SMP is similar to the sub ...the sub is in blue as well if you consider TT models.

The Indicies on the SMP are applied SuperLuminova in triangle formation, while on the SUB they are White Gold boardered Luminova in Circular and Triangle formations.

Once again MSRP Sub is $3800 SD is $4000

"Once again, resale value... addressed; An
SMP purchased 'with a HEAVY discount' can be
sold for exactly what was paid. How many
have you seen for sale? How large a
percentage is that of all SMPs purchased
new? How does that figure compare with other
manufacturers? We just don't know. I've seen
more Rolex watches in pawn shops (or on
eBay) than any other brand; Does that mean
that they are disliked by their owners, or
just that they are a commodity, like any
other, that is bought and traded? I believe
the latter is true. Such evidence is
anecdotal."

I have seen many many SMP's for sale at a great discount on the TZ salescorner and on ebay, I do not frequent Pawn shops.

"And what on earth do you have against spring pins?"

Nothing against Spring Bars, but instead Friction Pins as they look Ugly IMHO when you can see the Adjustment holes on the sides of the links, also seem to be a very cheap method of scuring a very nice bracelet, you would think with all the work they put into it they would finish it right.

"What corners were cut? Please tell me. I'd like to know. Please tell me what QUANTIFIABLE aspects of the SMP are inferior to the same QUANTIFIABLE aspects of the Sub. Regardless of price. I can sure provide a list of QUANTIFIABLE aspects where the Sub loses: Solid-End-Link Construction in the Bracelet Sturdier Bracelet Closure Helium Escape valve (present) These are serious arguments, which make "Luminova Bleed" and "Dipped Hands" seem like very diminutive concerns. We can debate preferences in finish and style until the cows come home, but that won't change the fact that the SMP and the Sub BOTH passed the SAME chronometer tests, and keep time exactly the same... within +6/-4 seconds per day."

First off your Point about SEL is moot as Rolex now has Solid end links on all their sport watches with the exception of the Non Date Sub...you would have been better off mentioning the hollow center links :)

Corners Cut on SMP:

1. Non Boardered Hour Indicies.
2. Dipped Second hand instead of Painted.
3. Crown Mechanism Not as "Robust" As the

Competition.
4. Clasp only has Full and Half link adjustments

which might not accomodate all.
5. Helium valve is Awkward being Manually

activated, especially when there is another

watch (SOP) which has an auto valve for the

same MSRP as the SMP, why use older tech when

newer is avail at a comparable price.
6. Un-necessary holes in the uppermost links of

the bracelet. Why are they there?
6. And lastly my Favorite, Friction Pins to secure

Removeable links on an otherwise excellent

bracelet, why make a great bracelet and then

use the same method as a Timex for securing it?

"To say that Omega lags behind Rolex in
any of these areas is simply untrue"

Subjective and not supported, I provided an itemized list :) actually both have their pluses and negatives, just a matter of what you can deal with.

"They weigh the same, the materials are comparable (same saphire, different steel... Rolex happens to go to immense expense to squeeze
an extra, imperceptable bit of improvement
for its steel)"

Actually not true, if anything the Omega weighs more than the Sub IMHO. Agreed with the rest.

"the accuracy is the same (same COSC tests), The features are similar"

Agreed

"Omega actually has the Helium valve on theirs, while Rolex's helium valve is exclusive to the much more expensive Seadweller)"

See my point about the Super Ocean Pro from Breitling, if they can incorporate an Auto Helium valve for the same Price as the Omega, and their watch has a greater depth rating, then why can't Omega do it? or is Omega doing it just to get their watch some more attention by adding something that Sticks out. IMHO the He valve on the SMP is a gimmick, esp on a 300m rated watch.

"Omega's bracelets are simply better (Rolex's Oyster clasp design is truly in need of an update"

Bracelets yes, Friction Pins no...agreed on the clasp but if it works who cares, also it allows for minute adjustment which the Omega system does not.

"...and they don't have SEL design yet)"

Wrong...Rolex Sports watches have SEL, and have had it for two years, gotta check those facts :)

"both boast great detail and refinements (empirically), but which refinements that one prefers is a matter of personal taste."

Pluses and minuses, no watch IMHO is perfect.

"If you're looking for jewelry, I would think
that you'd prefer the highly-polished bevels
on the SMP case and bezel, and the fancier bracelet."

Actually I would look for something in TT or all gold, too bad all Omega TT models imho are just plain ugly and I am not ready/willing to put down the money for a SG watch.

"It seems to me that the feature that you wanted most was the little crown on the dial."

LOL is that really all you got out of what I wrote? are you that blind...if it is really that important I will tell you what I wanted...

I wanted a watch that was Reliable, Classic, and Somewhat Exclusive.

Something that Was a good quality product that held its value well and had a timeless design.

A watch with an Inhouse movement vs. a refined ETA (was a biggie for me at the time)

and finally something that was known for great after sales service available in the country which I live.

Really the "little crown" had not that much to do with it at all as I never make decisions based on emotion.

Good day.