zOwie Omega Discussion Forum

Hi guys,

I DO TRUST Andy Timeman. I have bought from him in the past & may buy from him again the future.

I also agree with some of Georges points.

Please allow me to expand on them.

: Timeman is someone I never have trusted for
: these reasons:

OK, I think I've covered my stand already.

-what he said to be good
: condition isn't: often poor lume, average
: condition dials, poor condition movements,
: poor precision and often franken watches

He can "say" what he wants. It's his website / his eBay auction. I choose what I believe. I DON'T believe everything that I read. eg If someone describes a dial as perfect & I can see a flaw I choose not to believe the description. I then either surf on, or if I'm really interested in the item, I'll e_mail the seller and ask for more info / a better picture.

A bad (or over-optimistic) description does not affect my trust of anyone.

I have seen fake dials for sale on Timemans webpage. here's an example...

: -he doesn't offer a warranty on his watches and
: there is no customer service existing with
: him

That's a business choice that Timeman has made. As long as the buyer is not lied to about this, I don't see a problem.

With an eBay deal , I ALWAYS assume that there is no warranty, UNLESS it is explicitly mentioned in the auction text.

With a deal over a webpage, I ask before I buy. depending on the answer this makes the watch more or less attractive at the sellers price.

: -none of his watches are serviced and none of
: them are in a perfect condition

Again, these are business decisions that Timeman has made. I adjust the price I'm willing to pay based on this Info. & BTW there are plenty of collectors who would rather have an unrestored watch, than a restored watch.

: -his prices are high but what he sells doesn't
: even desserve the third of the price due to
: the the poor condition of the items

He is free to ask whatever price he wants. You are free to spend time on his website or not as you choose. Customers are free to either buy the watch there or look elsewhere.

: -he is not a watchmaker with 15 years of
: experience. He is just a watch collector who
: pass himself for a so called professional
: and who works with other people but we don't
: even know if they are qualified watchmakers
: with many years experience.

I don't know if he is a watchmaker or not. I don't know ANYTHING about his life. Do you ?

I have bought many watches from watch collectors. probaly some of then have less than 15 years experience. I don't have a problem with that.

I have been seriously collecting Omegas for about 4 years now. Does this make a person you shouldn't TRUST ? I hope not.

Timeman probably does work with watchmakers. It is his choice if he reveals the names & details of these people.

: -ebay feedback can be misleading and that andy
: remembers me three of not very good
: reputated vintage watch retailers in France:
: Rea, Contretemps and Temps et
: Collection.They are like him, they are
: middlemen who work with a watchmaker but
: they aren't watchmakers and truely
: knowledgeable about brands and
: movements.Tough the vintage watch retailers
: I am talking about are offering a warranty,
: their items are often poor condition, poor
: timekeeping and not perfect conditions.

"Ebay feedback can be misleading".... mmmmm how ? I have a feedback of about 530. does this mean that I have found 530 idiots who have said I'm OK & actually I'm a theif. or could it be that I AM OK ?

ANDY_TIMEMAN has a feedback rating of over 700. think about it. That is over 700 people who have "stood up" & said something positive about him. there are some 25 negatives in there. these are almost all complaints about the quality of the watch / delivery time.

As I said above, looks at the pics. For me, the text is usually a secondary source of info. I believe a picture before I believe the text.

I think a feedback rating of over 700 says a LOT about someone.

You then bracnh of to talk about 3 french watch dealers. I have never heard of them, I know nothing about them. I can make no comment on them.

: -You want to buy something stunning and
: warrantied I have another adress:
: http://www.joseph-watches.com. More
: expensive but all items are perfectly nos
: condition and 6 months of warranty.That is
: not the case of ebay and Timeman who I put
: in the amateur category than in the true
: professional category but that is my
: opinion.

I have never bought from Mr Gisbert. & to be honest I don't think I ever will. I find his prices WAY over the top & if you know your way around vintage Omegas, you'll probably find a few examples on his website that have been completly over polished. So from a collectors point of view, they are ruined.

I completely disagree with your comment "all items are perfectly nos condition"

But he sells plenty of watches ( via eBay too ! )
See, "decent" people also sell via eBay !

It's his choice to prepare the watches as he feels & chrage the prices he wants.

It is my choice NOT to buy from him. It is also my choice to spend time on his website, researching my hobby.

: regards

: georges

Before I signoff a few points of my own Georges.

What is your eBay rating Georges ? How many happy customers do you have ? Are you a watchmaker with over 15 years experience ?

Do you meeet your own criteria for being trusted ?

I use eBay. I like eBay. I am careful about what I buy there. I KNOW there are "theives" around, but there are also "theives" that sit in shops, there are also "theives" that have over 15 years experience.

One of the reasons that I love eBay & forums like this is that I can LEARN. I can see what is avaialable, what it SHOULD look like, what it's current market value is. Based on THIS information, I can then decide to buy WHERE I want at a price that I decide is acceptable.

A good example is the speedmaster 125. Omega claim there are only 2000 made. If so why do I regularly see 5 plus for sale in eBay ? Based on the information that I have available, I choose NOT to believe that there were only 2000 made.

I'd also like to ask you how watchmakers get 15 years experience ? If everyone was to "stick to your rules", Georges. NO-ONE would ever buy from a watchmaker with less than 15 years experience, so there would never be new watchmakers. Luckily different people have different "rules". You choose to set your limit at 15 years. I set my limit elsewhere.

Finally, I KNOW that English is not your mother tongue, Georges. You write amazingly good English. BUT In all of the points you make above, I don't see any reason not to TRUST Timeman. I see plenty of reasons that you CHOOSE not to buy from him.

Please don't mix these 2 concepts. There is an enormous & very important difference between CHOICE & TRUST.

Steve