zOwie Omega Discussion Forum

: Hi everyone,

: Let’s get a few things straight. I have been
: following the “debate” on movements between
: Chuck and George and, I have to admit, I
: have enjoyed it a lot. Nonetheless, I felt
: that the criticism on ETA 2824 -and those
: like Breitling who are using it- was a bit
: exaggerated.
: I will briefly mention two points, paraphrasing
: the classic by A. Watchmaker “ETA
: 2824-another little engine that could” and
: reporting my private observations on my own
: collection.
: Both 2892 and 2824 are Eterna-derived calibers
: –the brand before ETA- that started their
: career as 18,000 BPH movements- and have
: been modified multiple times eversince. They
: have the same diameter, but the latter is
: about 30% thicker than the former. They also
: differ slightly in the size of the balance
: wheel and the diameter of the ball bearing
: race support-which may mean something for
: long term wear and resistance to shock. From
: the published literature, the user’s
: comments and the information provided in
: ETA’s site I cannot see substantial
: differences in the design and overall
: performance of these movements that would
: make one of the two a champion and the other
: one a poor second.However, despite the
: obvious similarities, no one would disagree
: that 2892 has a slight edge over 2824. The
: question is why.
: In my non-expert opinion, this has a lot to do
: with the context in which these movements
: are used. Context can be critical, because
: every brand makes their own little
: compromises and calculations when modifying
: or applying the movement to a new caliber.
: To cite an example, the performance of my
: Aqua Terra co-axial is unbelievably good
: –less than 2s/week-but I understand that
: this may be primary a function of the free
: sprung balance and to a lesser extent of the
: new, Daniel’s escapement. My other 2892-or
: rather 2893-based movement that is installed
: in a Fortis Cosmonauts model is almost as
: good, but not quite-about 7s/week with the
: trick during sleep.
: My experience with 2824 has also been
: “model-dependent”. My Breitling
: SuperOcean-that I also hesitated before
: buying- does an excellent job with a drift
: of about 0.6s/day, or 4-5s/week. However, my
: other 2824-equipped watches err from
: 4-10s/day [Zeno pilot XL chronometer
: -4s/day, Muele Glasshuette M12 2s/day, Oris
: T1 diver 10s/day, Sigma SP200 -4s/day]. By
: comparison, my Speedy Reduced [2890
: movement] deviates about -4s/day, or
: 28s/week.
: Visiting ETA’s site and reading on 2824
: variations – see WIS encyclopedia in
: watchuseek-is pretty illuminating. One
: quickly realizes that there are refined and
: non-refined 2824s, expensive and cheap ones.
: In the end, you get what you are paying for.
: So, we should not be quick in underrating
: Breitlings.
: Of course, the cost in absolute terms is
: another issue. I believe all major brands
: are making a fortune by selling low-cost
: machines at outrageous prices.While we,
: collectors, stand for innovation, artistic
: value and history they work exclusively for
: profit.
: Do you see my point?

I've maintained all along that each and every automatic watch is different. You could buy a Tissot with an ETA 2824 movement in it for $300 and find that it keeps better time than a $4800 Rolex. That really wasn't the point I was driving at.

I criticize Breitlings because they do not bother to modify their ETA movements to the extent that Omega does, yet they charge more for their watches. Thus, as a general rule, you get less for your money. I'm not saying you couldn't buy a Breitling that won't keep much better time than a comparable Omega, merely that their price isn't justified by the hardware inside. Now, if Breitling gave you a nicer bracelet, a nicer finish, or some other feature that justified the price, I would understand. After all, watches really are jewelry. I found the SuperOcean inferior to the Seamaster in every way except for the water resistance and automatic helium relief valve.

Yes, Omega may use the same base ETA movements as Breitling, but at least Omega takes the time to extensively modify them and develop innovative new movements like caliber 2500 with the co-axial escapement. I have yet to see Breitling come out with anything as technically innovative.