zOwie Omega Discussion Forum

1)Anybody could be wrong, myself included of
course.I don't know the official specs of 3303. The single direction winding impression was from
past experience. I once found that my Broad
Arrow stopped on my winder (non-expensive,
reversable direction type). Then I manually
wound it and it stopped again. That's when I
realized it might be single direction
winding just as Valjoux 7750. I changed the
winding direction of the winder, this never
happened again.
I tried to search for some official info onine,
but couldn't find anything official, with
the exception of Orbita watch database:
http://www.orbita.net/pages/17115.htm. The 3303 movement winding direction specified there seem to agree with my observations.

2)If you have firefox you could use the
I used IE, no wonder I couldn't get it
translated. Learning something everyday.

3)ok
I think I posted that picture on TZ long time
ago. Guess the author just saved that
picture. I downloaded the movement picture
from a Japanese website, and photoshopped
it.

4)A watchmaker who works at rolex and
Sure, anybody can make a statement based on
their own experiences. But sometimes those
statements may be FAR away from the truth.
How about I (a watch newbie student) make
the following statements?

1. A $50 Casio radio controlled watch keeps
time 1000 time better than a $5000 Rolex. In
terms of time keeping, Casio is a much
better product.
2. A $500 watch with ETA 2892-A2 OFTEN has
better finished movement than a Rolex, and
performs just as well if not better.
3. A $500 watch OFTEN has better bracelet than
a Rolex.
4. A $500 watch is much easier to service than
anything Rolex is boasting for. Parts
availability? Anywhere. Easier service? You
can drop in a new movement and save time and
money.

The list goes on and on. But are my above
claims true or false? There are some truth
but they are not exactly true because they
only cover one aspect of a product.

5)Many rolex movements are the leaders in their
category

I cannot agree with you. Superiority? Frankly
there is no such thing in any industry. For
example, is Rolex 3135 better than Omega
2500, or even 1120 or even a quality ETA
2892-A2 ? From my experience, performance
wise, they are pretty much the same. I'm
very picky on movement finish: Rolex 3135
doesn't have the looks of a luxury watch,
the rotor and bridge are virtually
unfinished, not a looker at least. You call
that superior? in what?

6)I am not defending rolex
Frankly, I'm not attacking Rolex at all. They
somehow EARNED the rights to put anything on
the market (good or bad), and there will be
people believe they have the best watch
money can buy. Good for them. Robust and
ultra reliable? Maybe.

7)But there are other reasons too besides the
acutal product. Have you ever been shopping
for an used car? I found that many 7~8 year
old Mercedes look like new, but many 7~8
year old Honda Accord does not look as good.
Think about the reason behind it before
saying Mercedes is superior in everything.

8)Why do you think Rolex modified the EP? For
a Rolex developed 4130, not modified the EP. Very
different calibres. They want something
in-house. Better reliability and increased
accuracy? Just claims. When designing a
product, every company will have some GOALS
in mind. Omega boasts 2500 as ground
breaking stuff, you can choose to believe it
or not believe it just as what Rolex's
claims. Reality sometimes are different than
expectations.

a)As a scientist/engineer, I tend not to
believing in marketing hypes.Engineering often involves a lot of compromises. For example, if you increase beat rate, you will have lubrication issues; if you have slow beat rate, lubrications are ok, but the sweeping is not as smooth. I
guess that's why many automatics choose
28.8K nowadays.

b)Another example, as I noted you mention ETA's
ball-bearing rotor is not as good as Rolexes
in a previous post, this is also a compromise made: Ball bearing rotor has better support for the weight (more robust?), the rotor is less likely to touch the main plate, also the rotor is less likely to become loose, but this sacrifices
winding efficiency because the rotor is not
easily turned. You can see both type of
rotors in Omegas current product lines. I've
read someone has an unscrewed rotor in an
Omega 3303, I'm not surprised that it could
happen.

9)As a student in this watch thing, I learned a
lot from reading quality posts on watch
forums. For example, I like Chuck's posts,
even though I sometimes disagree with him,
he speaks out his opinion with supporting
facts. IMHO, there is no wrong opinion, only
wrong/biased claims or conclusions.

1)Those are your own personal observations, it hasn't been verified by someone else and neither confirmed by a watchmaker or by Omega, so those are just claims not facts.

3)You think but you are not sure.The movement pics were posted by FrankN on tz in 2003 and I remember of it very well that is for sure. Please see the link http://213.237.13.198/nik/gallery/pictorial/index2_html

4)How many watches have you serviced ? How many years have you been into repairing watches? Are you a wostep watchmaker?
Someone with experience know what he is talking about because he has been long enough into watchmaking and has more than enough proofs to back up his statements.
The casio is a mass produced quartz watch so it is very nonsencical to compare a cheap watch to a luxury watch.The eta 2892-a2 according to eta is an luxury range movement (it cost 175$ but is a very averagely finished movement see pic please
)The eta 2892a2 is a thin movement and it hasn't got the robustness of a rolex 3035, 3135 and even the robustness of an older 100% inhouse omega movement cal 1020. An eta will never beat in accuracy a rolex because it hasn't got such things as microstella balance wheel and integrated balance bridge and cock. Not memntionning that rolex are far easier to service than etas
http://people.timezone.com/mdisher/andrewb/3135/3135_1.htm (in that link you will find explained why rolex movements are easier too service than etas and why they are better)

5)The 2500 has been introduced in 2000 and it hasn't made its proofs long enough to be considered as a reference. About the 1120, there were some people who had their seamaster 300 profesional chronometer that stopped to work after some month and yet you dare to compare these movement with the 3135? The 3135 has been introduced in 1988 exactly and it has been tested under various harsh environnment with divers of the comex in the sea dweller as well as by moutaineers and explorers.The 3135 has made its proofs long enough to be considered as fully reliable and sturdy. The 3135 is also of bigger dimensions than the 1120 and 2500
3135
diameter:28.5mm
height:6mm
power reserve: +50h
bph: 28800

1120
diameter:26.5mm
height:3.6mm
power reserve: 44h
bph: 28800

2500
diameter:26.5mm
height:3.9mm
power reserve: 44h
bph: 28800
diameter
and also the construction of the 3135 is more robust than the 1120 and 2500 movements
You are wrong again about what concerns finish, please see links
http://www.horlogerie-suisse.com/Complications/Rolex/3135.html
http://marina.fortunecity.com/westindia/59/dfg2.htm
http://marina.fortunecity.com/westindia/59/dfg3.htm
http://marina.fortunecity.com/westindia/59/dfg4.htm
http://marina.fortunecity.com/westindia/59/dfg5.htm
http://marina.fortunecity.com/westindia/59/dfg6.htm
Rolex have always been superior to its competitors (excluse the older rolex 727 and 722 calibers)because Rolex has always prefered a sturdy, robust,ultra reliable and very accurate movement to a too thin movement with a fragile winding system.

6)Rolex was the first in the world to propose a fully automatic wristwatch with a total waterproofness and tested by the bureau officially suisse de contrôle predecessor of the COSC.Rolex has also privilidged to be fully independant and to make its own movements inhouse not unlike some old manufactures who lost their status and since the late 70's or early 80's use only etas. Rolex has also to be admired for its capacity to stay and be the biggest cosc watches manufactured since the 80's. There is no maybe with Rolex because the firm is more than enough serious when it conceipts or creates movements and it is still what makes them appreciated by their customers. Unlike Omega who uses Bond as a marketing tool, Rolex use some highly estimated sportsmen and other artists as well as some organizations like the comex or even the cosc for its marketing and it is better considered by customers.

7) I will always value something proven and reliable over something fashionable and using non inhouse or very average quality parts.

8)You got it false again so let me remind the story of rolex chronograph movements, because you don't know rolex chrono movement story very well.
In the late 30's till the late 40's Rolex used the valjoux vhz the higehst grade of valjoux movement available at that time, see the pic

In the mid 50's rolex modified the 72 and it was known as rolex calibre 722 foundon the daytona 6238 and there was also a val 72c found in the killy chrono,see the pic

In the mid late 60's Rolex modified the 722 into the cal 727 found in the 6239,6263 and 6265 daytonas, see pic please.

The 727 was produced till 1988, year of adoption of the 4030
The 4030 was a very modified el primero but claiming that Rolex never modified an el primero is definitely not knowing rolex history. Here are the pics of a 4030


http://www.oysterworld.de/calibers.htm (a useful link with the inrtoduction of each rolex calibers)
http://www.oysterinfo.de/de/specials/16520_116520/index.php (link showing the main differnce in the new 4130 and old 4030 daytona)
Here is the pic of the 4130

found here the link explaining the transition of the 4030 to the 4130 http://bjsonline.com/watches/articles/0014.shtml

Find included a comparative between the 4030 and 4130 daytos.

a)False. Older in house omega movements had sweep seconds even those including the 19800 and 18000 bph rate. The older vintage omega inhouse movements were of far better quality tahn teh eta based ones.

b) You probably don't know that from 1939 till 1983 omega was only using jeweled pivot rotors like rolex in their movements. I bet you probably never interested yourself to vintage omegas.The eta 2824 and even the 2892 were not considered references in their time. The references I heard most of when it comes to Omega inhouse self winding calibres are: 33x-35x,50x, 55x,56x,75x, 100x, 101x and 102x and not the eta based ones.
Let's make a comparison of an omega eta based calibre and an inhouse vintage one

9) Because I don't give facts? hahaha. Looks like you don't know me well enough,ask to the others regulars what they think about my posts and you will see.