zOwie Omega Discussion Forum

Most of the wins that I "treasure" are sniped Posted By: SteveW62 <Steve_Waddington@yahoo.com> Date: 12/16/07 11:09 GMT

In Response To: USAToday: On eBay, it pays to snipe *LINK* (Chicagoland Chuck Maddox)

Hi Guys,

That's an interesting article. I've long thought that some of the snipe bids are at much better prices than non-sniped wins.

They are, Steve. They are.

I snipe. There, I've said it now. I don't have a problem with sniping. I don't see anything wrong with it.

I snipe. I've sniped, either manually or via a Sniping program, or a Sniping service since a time when I had less than 10 positive feedback. I don't think there is any issue with sniping nor should there be.

I use snipe in eBay auctions. I see an article that I like & set up my snipe bid ( sometimes over a week before the acution end ). I decide how much the item is worth to me & set up my snipe bid. Sometimes I'll inform a couple of the various Omega internet friends that I have, that I'm sniping an item, but usually I don't.

Same with me.

It's a fair auction. I have entered my price & the bid will be given just before auction end. If noone else is prepared to pay more, I win. If someone else IS prepared to pay more, they win.

Ties go to the person who bid first. That's fair.

I've seen plenty of posts from Chuck reffering to (what I thought he reffered to as ) the "Stein limit" admitedly I can't find any just now ), where he discusses the price of an Item.

The Stein Point, Steve. Coined by Jeff Stein, owner and operator of Chronocentric/OnTheDash, the Stein Point simply stated is the price point where you as a bidder are indifferent about winning an auction for an item. It's the point where if you bid any less you'd kick yourself if you lost to another bidder, and where if you're outbid [even by a penny] you're not upset at the result. I sometimes also advocate determining your Stein + 3, Stein + 6, Stein + 12, etc. points. Meaning 3, 6, 12 months from now, at what point will you kick yourself for not bidding higher for a particular item.

It's a good method to judge your own interest in an item.

I'm sure we've all done this. We bid, someone else wins & then we think "Why didn't I bid more ? It was worth more to me". These kind of thoughts are gone with sniping ( for me anyway I set my max & get on with my life. If I win - Good. If I don't - Good.

The point of indifference illustrated.

Everybody has seen the kind of auction where 2 bidders want an item & they both push each other & the prices up to a price that noone was expecting ( see Antiquorum/Omegamania as a good example ). This is gone with snipe bids. It's a one off. The person who bids highest wins. There is no second chance.

Well, not usually anyway.

Another point that is important to me, is the geographical location of the item. I live in Europe. If I bid on an item in Australia or the USA there's usually a large time difference. So If I bid in the normal way with my max. It gives a "local" time to incrementally bid upto & just above my Max. Usually whilst asleep in bed ). With a snipe, I bid the same amount, but seconds before auction end. Have I done anything different ? I don't think so, all I have done is delay the timing of my bid.

The only real difference is that if you enter your bid on eBay, everyone knows about it and has from that moment until the time the auction ends, to react to it. With a Snipe, no one knows your entered bid except you, and the sniping program/service. And there is nothing on eBay for other bidders to react to.

BTW I also have a similar problem with European auctions. I often work out of customers offices. They don't pay me to sit infront of an eBay auction. I can't interupt a meeting to place a bid. I snipe.

It's like time-shifting with a VCR... Sure Advertizers are cheesed off that you'll fast forward through their commericals, but who cares about them.

Having now defeneded sniping for half a page, lemme say .....

Not that sniping needs any defending. It's a legal strategy that a person can choose to emply or not.

Joe K.'s example of an auction site where the auction end is extended by 15 minutes after the last bid is a GREAT Idea.

I wouldn't go that far, but if that's the style of auction you'd rather participate in, that's a personal choice too. Feel free to participate over there.

This will completely destroy the usefulness of a snipe unless you are purely using it to bid whilst you sleep/work ). I would have no problem if eBay would introduce this.

I personally have no problem with the current eBay rules and regulations. There are certainly enough different ways to list an item for sale: no Reserve, Reserve, High initial bid price, Live Auctions, Dutch Auctions, Sealed bid auctions, Proxy Bidders, absent/agent bidders, etc. and more than one way to bid upon them, too. The scheme that Joe K mentions is closer to a live in person auction in that once an item gets to the "Going Once, Going Twice" stage, a new [or previous] bidder can raise their bidding baton and the auction continues until "Going Three times, sold" is called by the auctioneer.

I would still snipe.

If your Sniping program/service could handle this type of bidding.

I'd set my max & arrange that the bid was placed as close as possible to the acution end. If the auction then gets extended & someone chooses to push the price up & eventually outbid me, Good. I have still bid my max.

Yup, that's one way to look at it.

Finally, from my own experience, I'd say I win about 30% of what I snipe. So 70% was for nothing, somoeone else was prepared to pay more. But from that 30% about half is won at a price WAY lower than my final offer.

I don't know what my sucess rate is, but I suspect it's somewhat higher. But you're right, it's a small percentage of my wins that are at or near my maximum.

What do you think about sniping ?

Typically the buyer's goal is to either a) minimize the cost of the item, b) maximize his chances of winning the item at a price that the buyer is willing to pay, c) maximize his chances of winning the item at all costs, d) a combination of one or more of the above. Sniping is merely one of a variety of legal and permissible strategies one can choose to employ to reach those desired ends.

I've seen some poeple get very personal & annoyed about sniping. For me it's just a tool. It's not personal & anyone can do it.

Agreed. That that there isn't a small subset of bidders out there that choose to hobble their own chances and then whine about not winning. The same rules apply to everyone, you can either employ a smart strategy or take what the other bidders leave you.

If a bidder chooses not to snipe - good. If his bid is higher than a snipers & he wins, the sniper looses. - Good.

If his bid is lower & the sniper wins ( or someone else ) - Good.

However if his bid is lower & the sniper wins then he starts to complain about the fact that the winner sniped.... my simple answer is, "Why didn't he offer more ?

Exactly, and you wouldn't believe some of the emails I've gotten from losers [people whom I've outbid] who will either turn around and say "Hey! I'll pay you what you're paying the seller for it!" [then why didn't you bid that much you silly fool!] or start calling me names because I outbid them [Well, if you really wanted it that much you would have bid more wouldn't you have?]. It's not like I'm the phantom chronograph collector. I have a fairly high internet profile/visability.

If he is complaining that he didn't win because he didn't know what others were prepared to pay, maybe his bidding strategey is wrong.

Or at least ineffective.

IMHO he should have bid his max & not an incremental amount more than anyone else is currently willing to pay. Just offer your max & walk away ( until it's time to pay "

What do you think ?

There are three major differences between eBay and a conventional live "in-person" auction.

1. The Internet connected, worldwide, 24/7 nature of eBay Vs. a single event, one location physical auction.
2. The buyer/seller/other bidders, may never see or meet one another, and the buyer will likely never see the item in person [and hence has no chance to physically examamine it] prior to purchase.
3. MOST IMPORTANTLY for the purposes of this discussion is the FIXED END TIME for nearly all auction listings [save for Live, Dutch, BIN, etc.] on eBay, Vs. the open ended nature of most live/In-person auctions. The last item can't be emphasised enough. If you look at the vast majority of eBay listings you can determine the end time and know that unless a Buy It Now has been exercised or the seller has pulled the auction, the auction will end at that time barring some sort of technical issue at eBay.

   So you can join the frenzy at the beginning and bid the price of the item up and ever higher, or wait until the other bidders have exhausted one another and then place your bid.

   Just like the sequence in "From Russia with Love" where early on, the head of SPECTRE uses the Siamese Fighting Fish to demonstrate how SPECTRE works, with two fish fighting while a third watches and waits to fight the winner, who will be weakened by then.

   

   Only my lair isn't blown up if I don't prevail...

This entire post is written from a buyers perspective till now ). I have also sold via eBay.

I haven't sold via eBay yet. But I know what the rules and guidelines for use are, and it's a two way street. It's in the buyers best interest to get an item for their lowest cost possible, and I accept that.

I accept that my auctions may be won by a sniper. I don't get annoyed when an item doesn't reach the price I'm hoping. There are 2 ways around this.

1, Set the start price at you minimum selling price. This has the disadvantage that it puts off a lot of interest. Many bidders don't bother. I have seen a large number of items that didn't sell at a price X, then the seller re-lists the item from , say, $1 & the final price is more than X.

2, Set a reserve.

Agreed.

What really annoys me is when a seller pulls the auction BEFORE auction end .... but that's another thread.

I agree, to both parts... It annoys me and that's another thread!

There is a Powerseller in Australia that I refuse to bid on their items, because they use this tactic a lot. NO, it's not Watchco - I bid on their stuff :-)

There are certain sellers whom I choose to refrain from doing business with. I have my reasons for each of them. But that's another thread too!

S.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. If anyone is interested in more of my thoughts, do a search on the OnTheDash Heuer forum on the terms "Snipe" and "Sniping". Where I've discussed the topic at great length. Cheer, Good Hunting and Good Sniping!