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: The first is a 1960s with the following...
: ...something I'm not equipped to do. I can find
: no serial number on the outside of the
Then you'll need to take it to a jeweler and have them open it. Maybe we could help identify it if you could include a photos, but amateur verbal descriptions of the outside of the watch are seldom unique enough to identify much.
: The second was bought for me in 1987 ...
: sign of a serial number in there, although I
: do have an 8 digit number on the guarentee.
That 8-digit number probably is the serial number. Though I am surprised that you didn't see an 8-digit serial number inside on the movement,
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