zOwie Omega Discussion Forum

Hi

Manufactures in the purest sense of the term are very few today.

I think there are contracts between movements usppliers and firms. Some firms do the modifications by themselves and other ask the movement manufacturer to do the modification for them on that we agree.

1)Ventura and Ikepod (RIP) are two who do/did modify the Valjoux 775x to a greater degree than Omega does, Fortis is another with their Alarm Chronograph's.
-I have never seen Ventura for sale in France as well as in Germany and even Estonia.I don't what their movements look like but I would be interested to see one just for comparing with Omega. About Ikepod I was never a fan of them.
-Fortis is of course known for their fortis gerber 2001 calibre

2)the breitling version of the lemania 1873 is
far less beautifully finished than a 1861 or
a 1863.How much Breitling (doesn't)
polish(es) the Lemania 1873 doesn't mean
they didn't use it, up until the time when
Swatch Group cut them and others (notably
TAG-Heuer who had an outstanding Carrera
Re-Edition using that movement) off.
-Personnally I like the old Lemania powered carrera more than the navitimer, I think it is better than the new carrera

3)Correct me if I am wrong, the topic is
about movements, not what firms charge for
their products. What Breitling charges isn't
particularly relevent, Zenith charges twice
and upwards as much as three times what they
used to charge for their products.
Admittedly Zenith starts out with a better
movement, but we aren't talking about
cost-benefit analysis (i.e. value) in this
thread.
-You are right I was slightly off topic ;)

4) Cosced or not, COSC remains something
that Breiting does (or at least did last
time I checked) for all of their mechanical
movements. Not even Rolex does that
(Air-King, no-date Sub).
-Yes but I would rather have air king or a no sub date than a super ocean or an ocean with an eta 2824-2. The rolex movement even not cosced is technically and mechanically superior to an eta 2824-2

4)Breitling has never been known for
manufacturing outstanding quality movements
as Omega did and does. Again, in the
purest tense of " manufacture "
I'm hard pressed to name a single movement
save the c.1666 that Omega manufacturers
... Yes, they have an exclusive on their
c.33xx line (such as it is) and the
Co-Axial, but those are made for them by
another Swatch firm (F. Piguet, and the base
movement for the Co-Axial is an ETA
movement) Georges.
-before 1984 Omega was a 100% manufacture, but when Hayek baught the firm things changed completely and I do agree with your point of view

5)venus 178 was the best movement breitling
proposed in its chronographs, I don't
know... I own a Venus 178 (AOPA Navitimer)
which has never failed me, but I think the
Lemania 1873 is a match for it.
-the venus 178 is a very smooth to operate chrono and a greatly finished movement it is used in limited numbers in Jacques Etoile chronographs

6)however a 321 is better built and far more
reliable.Perhaps. I wouldn't bet against
the c.321, but then again how many firms
used that movement? Omega, Tissot, perhaps
Bucherer back in the day. Who else?
-Patek, Ulysse Nardin and Vacheron Constantin used and use the lemania 2320 the modernized version of the lemania 2310 in soem of their chronographs. Today patek uses its own inhouse chrono movement based on an old victorin pigeut calibre.

7)About the cal 36, it is just a rebadged el
primero with no improvements.And how many improvements does the El-Primero need,
Georges? And this is TAG-Heuer, not
Zenith... Zenith is the Luxury brand of LVMH
not TAG.
- It is not without reason that Rolex modified the el primero a lot when adopting it as the base calibre for the daytona in 1987. They made it more simple and ticking at 28800bph in order tp increase the movement longevity and they changed the balance as well. The movement was also far more easier to service as compared to a classic el primero. The modified el primero by rolex was known as the 4030

8)As for the quality of TAG-Heuer finishing of
movements:Please detail to me the differences in quality between an Omega prepared c.1861 (c.1873 base) and the TAG-Heuer prepared c.1873 above... Yes, I know the c.1863 goes one level above this because it's a display back model, I am comparing like with like: non-display back
with like non-display back. My point is that
TAG-Heuer can and does a good job with it's
movements, and they are far from being as
bad as most of TAG's detractors would have
one believe. If you don't agree with me,
again, please point out those differences.
-I find the finish more rough than on an Omega 1861

8)The 33xx has a keyless balance, kif shock
protection and also a bigger power reserve
than the cal 36. And its reliablity
sucks. All the fancy features in the world
aren't worth squat if they don't work, work
reliably and over the long haul. In fact
"Shock damage" is Omega's most
frequently cited excuse for the failures of
the c.33xx movement, if that's the kind of
protection KIF provides I'd rather be
without it!
-the 33xx is mostly a specific problem to the US, I have rarely heard if not never heard of 33xx problems in Europe. You should check JM's website where some people wrote about their 33xx reliability

9)I may not like the moves of Omega,
and I may be tenative of where TAG seems to
be going (I see good and bad), but Zenith
has disappointed me more than any other
manufacture with their direction the past 4
years or so.
-agreed

10)IWC also is a heavy user of the Valjoux/ETA 7750 movement, people claim great finish on the IWC versions of the 7750, but I don't see
anything of note on my Porsche Design/IWC examples.
-I am not enough knowledgeable about porsche design/IWC watches

11)Experience, yes, I agree, however, I wouldn't put the quality and/or finish as being significantly different (and certainly no better) than Omega, Ventura or Ikepod.
-agreed here as well

Thanks for making the topics always enjoyeable Chuck, have a nice day.

regards

georges