zOwie Omega Discussion Forum

Omegamania on Ebay, what do you think?

Posted By: Bill Sohne

Date: 4/6/07 19:00 GMT

Hi all

As most of you have already noticed it looks like AQ is listing Omegamania on ebay as well...

Yup, I/we have.

You can take this in two ways.....

Actually, I can take it a lot more different ways that two Bill! As I'm sure we'll see! ;-)

1) AQ was smart in that they are opening the auction up to all ebayers out there.... Bigger pool of buyers. The potential of bigger hammer price obtained. The sad part the auction is listed in the wrong currency and they say as much ( Sad, that it is not listed properly ). For AQ I guess that is ok.

As for the currency... I don't know why Antiquorum can't have the auction listed in SwissFr. Perhaps the swiss version of eBay doesn't support Live Auctions. In any case the difference in value between Swiss Francs and Aussie Dollar's in minute, it's not really a big deal in my opinion, but it is unusual. I wonder how eBay feels about it?

Yeah for eBay! Posted By: Kelly Mackey Date: 4/7/07 08:48 GMT

In Response To: Omegamania on Ebay, what do you think? (Bill Sohne)

Here is Antiquorum's explanation for listing the items in Australian Dollars instead of Swiss Francs:

“Due to eBay Live Auction's currency functionality we are unable to post items in our local currency of Swiss Francs. Instead, the items in this auction are being posted in AUD. All values, while posted as being in AUD, should be considered Swiss Francs. Example: $125 AUD bid will be accepted as = 125 Swiss Francs”

Since eBay doesn't support Swiss Francs, Antiquorum had to choose another currency for the items. I think that Antiquorum chose AUD because its exchange rate is very close to the Swiss Franc right now.

Agreed. The difference is piddling small.

Please allow me to reply ...

Posted By: SteveW62

Date: 4/7/07 16:52 GMT

In Response To: Yeah for eBay! (Kelly Mackey)

I have not used all of Kelly's reply here. Just the bits that I want to comment on.

Antiquorum has made it clear that the amounts are really Swiss Francs even though AUD is shown. Not a big deal IMO.

Agreed, this is a mountain over an anthill, IMO.

This is NOT propogating the quality image that Omega is trying to cultivate. (IMHO)

Perhaps not Steve. Then again there are a lot of flaw's to how Antiquorum has been presenting these items. Only one picture of the item in the catalog, on the Omegamania.com website, lots of errors in the item descriptions, etc.

Here's my post from TZ on the questionable item descriptions:

It cheapens the entire auction/good work done till nowT.

I personally feel that in a tally of the shortcommings the inclusion of bidding via eBay isn't necessarily the greatest gaffe.

Partnering with eBay may be a good move for Antiquorum, and not just because of the potential for bigger hammer prices. Antiquorum is gaining exposure to many buyers that have never heard of them.

I simply don't see the additional method of bidding to be evil.

oo right they are.... I have NEVER even opened the Antiquorum website... I have an eBay feed rating of over 600

You haven't been on the Omegamania site before Antiquorum added the eBay listings Steve? Really? I know I have while doing research on Rolex Daytona's and to look at the Eric Clapton auction a while back. I realize I only have a 400+ feedback, but I'd be surprised if you hadn't at least been on the Omegamania site.

A minimum of 50 positive feedbacks in required to bid using eBay,

I hadn't realized that.

so many buyers will register directly with Antiquorum's bidding system so that they can participate in the auction. At least some of these buyers will probably bid in future Antiquorum auctions.

That's a possibility.

or

2) AQ and Omega have spent alot of time and energy ( Two plus years in the works ).... on this major event. For Omega this event brings the brand and its heritage to the forefront for all to see. This is a great way to move the brand "up-market" which has been Management's plans at Omega for a long time.

It's certainly great for Omega as they've been wanting to equate themselves with Rolex for a long time. It could be great for watch investors or collectors of Vintage Omega's who have extensive holdings of Vintage Omega's. For they will likely see a jump in values for their collections. [For more on this, see my posted reply to Steve at this link]

It's less than great for collectors who are seeking out pieces for their collection on a budget. They may find themselves priced out of the hobby, as I pointed out in my reply to Steve in a parallel thread.

AQ has also been getting a lot of positive press on this event. With the planning and execution of the "auction " world wide tour over the last 3 months it has been perceived as the "Exclusive Omega Collectors Event of the year ".

Indeed, that is a very fair assessment.

I went to the NYC Omegamania event

I attended the LA Omegamania event myself.

and was blown away with the offerings and the level of execution of the cocktail event From what I read and saw on TZ all the other events were as good if not better).

I went after hearing your [and many other folks] review of the NYC event. So I was expecting big things, and I saw big things, but I had pretty high expectations after reading all of the efusive praise.

It was great, amazing even, seeing watches that I've only heard of or seen pictures of, never believing that I'd be in their presence. It was also amazing to be in the company of so many astounding rare pieces which I have managed to snag for my collection.

And it was also hilarious for me personally to see so many watches labeled with titles like "The So-Called Darth Vader Seamaster" knowing that I coined the phrase.

I came away with the feeling that Omega is being presented as a Keystone brand with a colorful horological history that is second to none.

As I attended as a representative of a publication, I felt it important to not get too carried away with emotion and to maintain a certain amount of objectivity.

However, I came to the event believing and knowing that Omega was and is a keystone brand with an amazing horological history with a depth and breadth that is certainly second to none as you state, but also perhaps is unmatched by anyone in the industry.

The way AQ handled the event and the level of quality of the actual auction catalog was stunning.

You had described the presentation as: “The closest anyone will get to a visit to the Omega Museum without actually phyiscally going there", and that is a truly accurate description.

But now to see that the entire catalog is available for bidding via ebay is just sad to say the least.

I don't necessarily agree.

I simply see this as Antiquorum opening up bidding and participation to as many venues as reasonably possible. I feel the presentation as they have done it on eBay is lackluster even by comparision of Antiquorum's own Omegamania.com website, which in my opinion leaves much to be desired [Why only one picture of each item? No picture of the case back? the movement? Would any of us bid high on any of these pieces if they were offered on eBay with just a single picture?]

I do feel it's hypocritical for TZ to ban discussion of eBay auctions, permit discussion of Antiquorum auctions [Antiquorum owns TZ if I remember correctly] and exceedingly hypocritical for TZ to allow Antiquorum's eBay auctions to be discussed.

But I'm not [as] cheesed off about Antiquorum listing the items for bid via eBay's Live Auction facility. In fact, it'd likely be my choice of method of bidding.

All the time and effort that was spent in the past 24- 36 months has to say the lest been discounted.

I can see your point, but for me, it's like phoning in an order at the Apple Store from a Wal-Mart Pay-phone. That really doesn't cheapen the product you get (if you win the auction) how you placed the bid.

I have been in contact with many people telling me "as an Omega collector I REALLY want to win a lot from Omegamaina , even if I have to pay more!".

Here's contact with someone who'll tell you “as an Omega collector, there are a lot of items I really would like to have from Omegamania, but I sincerely doubt I will have the funds and the will to prevail in any of them if I'm reading reaction to the offerings correctly.”

I think these same Omega collectors are going to have second thoughts about that. It would be interesting when its all over to see if any of the winning bids will be from the ebay portal.

I'm confident that some will be via eBay. Perhaps not the WG Grand Lux, but maybe some of the more minor 1970's Seamaster offerings might be bid on via eBay.

My gut feeling is that the winner of the white gold Grand lux will be calling there bid in, or be there in person.

I would predict the same thing for the "high-zoot" items.

I agree that Omegamania is a marketing event for Omega. It's about escalating Omega's brand image and spreading its name recognition, and any profit made selling the watches is secondary.

For Omega, yeah, for Antiquorum, probably not!

Omega do NOT sell watches via the internet. Their website states this & I hear that AD's can loose their AD status if they are caught selling over the internet.

But selling second hand ( albeit vintage , restored & guaranteed by Omega themselves ) watches via eBay IS OK ? Not in my book.

So, Omega selling watches via Antiquorum is ok. Omega selling watches via Antiquorum and allowing phone and Antiquorum facility Internet bidding is ok? But Omega selling watches via Antiquorum and allowing phone, Antiquorum facility Internet bidding and eBay facilitated bidding is not ok?

I am not sure what you're saying, so I'm asking for clarification. I'm not sure where you advocate drawing the line.

This is absolutely hypocritical.

Yeah, well, we're familiar with hypocracy in the hobby!

However, I think that Omega is hoping that the publicity will attract new customers in addition to the traditional collectors that will be attending the live auction.

As well as media attention, as well as collector attention from other brands.

Now lemme see if I understand this. You want to buy a vintage watch, owned, restored, guaranteed & sold (indirectly) by Omega - Good you can do this via the internet.

You want to buy a new Omega - you can't buy it via the internet.

The people who use eBay are the kind of people who ARE prepared & want ) to buy over the internet. So having "atracted" them, you then tell them they have to visit ( or call ) an AD to buy a new watch ?

So is the problem that people can bid on these watches via the internet the problem Steve, or that they can do it via eBay?

Because technically, either/both are hypocritical.

What is a better way of reaching out to new customers than accepting absentee bids on eBay?

Casting one's net as far and wide as possible to maximize one's yield. Makes sense to me.

After all, eBay is the de facto auction site on the internet, while most budding collectors have probably never heard of Antiquorum.

eBay is the great electronic international internet flea market.

Antiquorum is more of a Breé and Cognag auction meeting.

The latter is the one you might expect James Bond to attend, the former is where you might bump into Jeff Foxworthy or Larry the Cable Guy.

ABSOLUTELY .... so why not use them from the beginning ? Either they are good enough or not. & since the watches are now listed there, they seem to be good enough for the job.

I think that Omega is drawing the line thus: Because of the problem with counterfeit watches, the only real safe place to buy a new Omega is an Authorized Dealer. They [Omega] wishes to build interest and awareness of the brand, so they are involved in this Omegamania event towards that end. Not everyone can attend in person, so there are provisions for bidding via phone, and via internet communications. The big addition just made is the provision to bid via eBay's facilities.

It's not like this is the first time that Antiquorum has had items listed via eBay's live auction facility.

Maybe some people consider eBay too pedestrian and not worthy of being an absentee bidding system for the "Exclusive Omega Collectors Event of the Year", but I don't see it that way. Granted I'm a working class guy that wouldn't want to pay more for a lot just because I attended a fancy cocktail event or the lot wasn't available on eBay.)

You and me Kelly! You and me! Realize that the Auctioneers Premium is what's paying for those Cocktail events and the travel expenses of Antiquorum personal and the Omegamania collection.

There is no free lunch! Someone will pay that expense.

There are eBay users who likely fit the demographic that Omega is targeting, and I suspect that at least some of them will take a look at Omega's website after browsing the listings on eBay. And some of them may even make a trip to their local AD. The bottom line is that listing the watches on eBay is not only about selling the watches being auctioned, but selling new watches to potential new customers and collectors.

It's really about having that avenue open in case someone wishes to participate. Nothing more, nothing less.

I agree that it will be interesting to see how many winning bids come from eBay. I suspect that a majority of the winning bids will come from the live auction, but then I'm often surprised how high the winning bids are on eBay.

Having never watched one of these proceedings in the past, I can only guess or lay out scenarios to potential outcomes. It'll be intersesting to watch.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts...

I'm glad to have had the opportunity to share my thoughts. Thanks for posting the topic.

Agreed, Great topic Bill! Great to see you post here!

Good hunting

Bill Sohne

************************************

I think it is hyprocitical of Antiquorum to use a competitor to advertise their auctions,

However, I'm not sure that the advertizing aspect is the most useful aspect to Antiquorum/Omega. I believe it's the facilitation of bidding on these items.

especially when a post containing anything more than the word eBay on the Anitquorum owned forums will cause that post to get pulled/Censored.

Yeah, well, TZ has never been free of hypocracy has it?

Obviously this reply is stuffed full of my opinions/views.

Hell, all of our replies are chock-a-brock full of our own opinions/views. Your's are no different.

Please feel free to disagree.

I have, to some extent. I mean I understand your point (much of the time, need clarification on some points] but to be honest, if I have to register myself on Antiquorum's site separatly, that's just one more thing that could possibly go wrong with my bidding. So I don't necessarily see Antiquorum's offering the facility to bid via eBay as reprehensible. I just don't. Is it hypocritical? Yeah, maybe it is a little bit, but that's part and parcel of sitting at the "big folks" table.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm going to finish up by pasting my overall general comments from my reply to Steve's parallel post/thread here. As they are just as appropriate here...

What I've found interesting is that the low end of the "expected end range" has been input into these auctions as the starting bid [essentially it's a reserve price as well as a starting bid]. It's been my experience that the most active [and frankly most exciting] auctions on eBay are those which start at $1 (or 1euro, £1, etc.) and then proceed from there, perhaps with an unknown reserve or no reserve. So, folks can start now, working up a spreadsheet to convert the actual SwissFr/Aussie$ amount, do an auto fill for price amounts say every $5 or 5SwFr, and have the spreadsheet calculate the Antiquorum premium.

I'd love for someone to develop such a spreadsheet and perhaps a spreadsheet to track what items are selling for) and post it for public use.

I personally do not plan to be doing much [if any] bidding. As nice as the pieces are, I am assuming they will be too pricey for me to be able to offer much if any competition, and frankly I'd rather not drive the price up for other collectors.

But it will be interesting to watch.

As for predictions... I guess I can see a lot of different things happening. Some of the initial bids for items will be [especially after the Anti. Premium near or above records for similar pieces offered for sale elsewhere and on eBay. Possibility 1: includes some or many items either going for the initial bid or there being no bid. This might have an effect of lowering the street price on items afterwards.

Possibility 2: Some/many items may go for around the current going rate for similar items on Sales Corners, webEtailers, eBay and the like. This would seem to have little effect on the street price of items offered elsewhere.

Possibility 3: Some/many items go high and match if not break existing records for similar examples. At this point the non-Antiquorum street prices for items offered elsewhere may be effected. Sellers may get the idea that: “Hey! if Antiquorum can get $2,500 for a Mark II Pro, why shouldn't I ask that much?”. The key point here is that there will be upward pressure on the street price, even though the items being offered elsewhere won't have the Omega warrantee, and may not be in the condition that the Antiquorum pieces are in.

and then there is...

Possibility #4: In this scenario, some/many items explode upwards through the roof and obliterate existing records for specific models. For example, the current record for a 376.0822 "Grail" Speedmaster c.1045 Day/Date Automatic is about $5,400. In this scenario the example that Antiquorum is auctioning off goes for say $8,000 or $10,000 or even more, dispite the fact that the example they are selling has the WRONG dial! One of the end results of this scenario is that values of similar examples would experience a similar jump in street value. The good news is that if you own one, it's value has jumped greatly, the bad news is if you're still looking for one, you are going to have to pay a lot more for it. This is clearly Omega's hoped for outcome and wish. Omega would love to see vintage Speedmasters fetch prices similar to vintage Rolex Daytona's, that way they can charge more for current models. If this scenario comes to pass there will be a "ripple" or even a "Trickle-down" effect where similar watches, like Tissot's and Longines, will also experence a bump in street value. Already, a Tissot PR516 (same model as I bought 4 years ago for $362 on a bracelet) went for OVER $1000 on a strap on eBay. If this scenario happens, expect to see more of this in other brands too. It doesn't take a Nobel Prize in Economics to guess if Speedmasters jump in Street price, Tissots and Bucherers will too.

[my Tissot PR 516 for comparision...]

It'll be interesting to watch. I hope that I and many other collectors aren't priced out of the market in the fallout from the Antiquorum/Omegamania auctions.

Good Hunting!

-- Chuck

Chuck Maddox

Chronographs, like most finer things in life, only improve with time...

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