zOwie Omega Discussion Forum

omegamania was purely marketing

Well, yeah. This is not really a surprise. And the interesting part is still to come.

Posted By: georges zaslavsky Date: 4/14/07 12:31 GMT

In Response To: but a big difference in meaning... (Chicagoland Chuck Maddox)

Hi

Hello Georges.

I am not astonished that the Omegamania prices were that high

When one considers the acquisition cost, repair/service cost, and the cost of detailing, I suppose I'm not particularly surprised by the starting prices of the items offered either.

but there was a goal researched by Hayek to promote Omega

[Which Hayek?] was a goal? I think this is an ongoing goal.

as a prestige brand and a manufacture thing which is not really the case today.

I suppose it sort of depends upon how one defines "a prestige brand" and "a manufacture thing".

Omega was and is a mid-range brand. Certainly above the lower tier of Tissot, Raymond Weil and the like, and certainly not in the Bruguet, AP and Patek tier. Some people call the mid-range "Prestige"... I am not certain that is the best word for Omega's position among the Swiss watch hierarchy.

As for the "manufacture thing", Certainly that too depends upon one's definition of "manufacture". If we're talking about manufacture of one's own movement, well, the c.8500 will qualify Omega for the first time since the late 1970's or early 1980's.

The prices of the items were inflated

I'm not certain the opening bidding points have been inflated. Perhaps some of the prices are optimistic, say for example lot 5: SO-CALLED TEUTONIC SPEEDMASTER Omega but I paid $900 for my example, figure a $350 service and a $300 detailing and we're within $100 of their opening bid. And I bought my Two-Tone Teutonic back in 2001. And all of this is before consideration of the worth/value of the warrantee offered on the Antiquorum lots.

I mean some of the Mark II's are optimistic in their opening bid... 17-MARK-II-SO-CALLED-RACING-Omega-Speedmaster. But Vincent paid close to $1600 for his minty example on a strap about a year/18 months ago... So, $1670 opening bid for one on a Bracelet probably isn't entirely out of line.

to show how great was Omega during its golden era.

Considering the only basis of pricing that's available and public, really are completed eBay auctions, of which your views are widely known Georges... And considering that most of the items offered on eBay are not freshly serviced (dispite the claims of the sellers), nor detailed to the degree that these pieces are, nor that the typical eBay offering has a 1 year Omega warrantee, and you won't even dain to consider a watch with even as short of a 6-month warrantee, I'm not entirely certain that the opening prices are inflated.

Unfortunately, the last 22 years under Hayek have not made Omega better or nor prestigious

I disagree. And realize that I'm not a particularly big fan of Mr. Hayek's recent moves/actions.

Your seeking to hold Mr. Hayek (the Senior I'm assuming) to the standard of where Omega was at it's peak, say in the 1950's and 1960's. The Omega that Mr. Hayek took over stewardship in 1985 was not the same Omega of the '50's and '60's, what he took over was a drastically weakened firm with dire outlook due to the severe money crisies and recessions of the late 1970's, the dual invasion of Japanese manufactures and Quartz timepieces (and customer's changing tastes).

I contend that the Omega of today, warts and all, is in better shape than the Omega of 1985. Feel free to disagree. Having watched too many brands which I love, Gallet among them, either disappear or essentially disappear, I'll say that what applies when I speak of Heuer and TAG-Heuer also applies to Omega: I'd much rather have a living, profitable and viable TAG-Heuer than a dead, mourned and largely forgotten Heuer.

Mr. Hayek's more recent moves not withstanding (and I'm not a big fan of them), Omega today is in better shape than when he first walked in the door.

but only a marketing brand.

Better what it is than an ex-brand, G. I realize that is a personal opinion [mine], but those are essentially the choices. A dead Omega following their late 1970's/early 1980's business plan, or what we have today. Would you rather have no Omega today?

Fact is that there are few independant watchmakers considering the eta based Omegas as prestigious or better than their predecessors

Not that anyone is contending that the ETA based Omegas are as prestigious as Omega's in-house movements were, George. Where has anyone contended that here?

The point is that Omega could not afford to make their own movements and sell the finished watches profitably at prices customers were willing to pay. Especially considering that dealers would have to be able to offer the watches at a profit too.

It really doesn't matter what you or I or "independent watchmakers" think, if the firm can't meet expenses it can't continue to follow that path [period].

that same comment goes for the piguet powered watches.

That's a different topic and a different discussion. In fact the ETA Vs. Omega in-house movement discussion is an entirely different topic than what we are discussing in this thread, namely, the Omegamania "event". I'm not sure why this thread [dormant for two days] all of a sudden turned into a discussion of how the current Omega isn't like the peak of Omega, well. I know how, I just don't know why.

I can't also forget the mediocre Omega after sales service from Lancaster or New Jersey or Besançon which have seriously tarnished the image of Omega.

Well, I've spoken with a couple of US AD's and they report [two of whom are still actually AD's at this point] [sigh] that the new facility in Paramus has been doing good enough that they are actually sending them work they would have never dreamed of sending to Lancaster. Which I guess is progress of a sort.

But this too is a different topic than the Omegamania event.

And Bienne restoration are very often approximative.

Since most of the items in the Omegamania event are at least looked at by Omega's vintage Restoration facility, at least this part is reasonably on topic.

Let's not forget as well the mass dropping of ADs in the USA,

Well, I'd think that not seeing Omega's offered side by side in every mall in America next to Citizens and Seiko's would be somewhat helpful to Omega's "prestige" factor. Not that I'm in favor of Omega's dropping of long time established AD's. I understand part of Omega's thinking, I just don't agree with the termination of long time established dealers who are maintaining a good/great flow of sales and are performing within their AD agreements.

but the decline of Omega ADs in the USA started since 1977 when the Norman Morris Corporation was bankrupt after selling Omegas in USA from 1946 till 1977.

The real decline in the US was as a result of Norman Morris's actions in the 1970's when they did all sorts of things which cheapened the brand. Talk to an Omega dealer who remembers the Norman Morris firm from that time, you'll learn they [Norman Morris] were no angels.

I am not going to say something is good when it is very average or bad.

Nor am I. However, I'm not going to blame Mr. Hayek for the condition of Omega when he came into the pictures. That's clearly not his fault or doing.

I am worried about Omega to be honest.

I am too, but not for the same reasons you apparently are.

just my two cents.

And mine...

regards

georges

-- Chuck

Chuck Maddox

Chronographs, like most finer things in life, only improve with time...

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