Hopefully my remarks dovetail along side Jeff's

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Hopefully my remarks dovetail along side Jeff's

In Response To: been doing a little research--- ()

Since Jeff did his usual bang-up job on the last part of this message, I'll concentrate on the front-end questions.

been doing a little research on the carrera's. seems like every year has a different movement.

Not really, not even close if one thinks about it, but it is true that Heuer was not as monogamus with one movement with regards to the Carrera as say Omega has been with the Speedmaster Pro.
It's safe to say that Heuer tried to match up movements to market segments and designed models around both.

anyway, looks like the 1964 12hour w/ the valjoux 72 seems to be a favorite?

Yep, that's a fair statement.

not sure why though.

The Valjoux 72 Carrera is of course one of the first Carrera's and in many ways every other Carrera is held up to the 1964 Carrera 12 for comparision. The reasons why the Carrera is the standard isn't just because it was first. The Valjoux 72 movement was for decades a standard and popular chronograph movement used by nearly every chronograph manufacture save Omega, Tissot and Universal. Even Rolex used the Valjoux 72 for years in the Daytona and it's predecessors. In addition to being a venerable movement, it was a good solid movement. Many Omega Moonwatch fanatics (which some people would label me as a member) will trump that the c.321 beat two v.72's to be named NASA's choice for Astronaut watch. And that is true, however, the reasons that the c.72's failed were due to problems with the hands on one example and the crystal on the second, in other words not necessarily anything pertaining to the movement. Additionally the Valjoux 72 is layed out in the manner made popular by the Universal Tr-Compax, and many people, myself included, will refer to the Carrera's "Tri-Compax" layout. Also, unlike many of the models that followed the Carrera 12 (or the Carrera 45 marketed in parallel), it featured a 12-Hour counter for the chronograph.

any insight into which movements, or years produced are favored.

Just about any Carrera with a Valjoux 72 base is going to be among the favored movements. Jeff has covered these very well and I think his value assignements are probably pretty close to dead on. I'm more used to quoting price ranges, than statistical forms like 1.0, 1.1, 2.5 etc. So they could be off and I wouldn't be sure. But based on his White Dial Valjoux 72 being a 1.0 I'll look through the Carrera table and go through some of the other movements.

Carrera
Case Ref.	Model Ref.	Dial Colours	Movement	Crystal	Catalogue Dates	Description	Price New
1553	S	Silver/Black	15	P	71,72		71-$170 72-$198
1553	N	Deep Blue/?	15	P	71,72		72-$198
1153	S	Silver/Black	11	P	72		71-$185 72-$225
1153	N	Deep Blue/White	11	P	72		72-$225
1158	S	Silver	11	P	72	18kt. Gold	72-$900 (Strap)
1158	CH	Champagne/Black	11	P	72	18kt. Gold	72-$900 (Strap)
1158	CHN	Champagne/Black	11	P	74, 77, 78	18kt. Gold	78-$2,160 No Strap
110.573	B	Blue/Black	11	M	74	SS
110.515	CHN	Champagne/Black	11	M	74	GP
110.253	G	Silver Grey/Black	11	P	78	SS (Formerly 1153S)
110.253	B	Blue	11	P	78	SS (Formerly 1153N)
110.255		Champagne/Black	11	P	78	GP
73453	N	Deep Blue/White	7734	P	72	SS	72-$170
73453	S	Silver/Black	7734	P	72	SS	72-$170
73655	S	Silver/Black	7736	P	72	GP	72-$195
73655	CH	Champagne	7736	P	72	GP	72-$195
73653	S	Silver/Black	7736	P	72, 74	SS	72-$179
73653	N	Deep Blue/White	7736	P	72, 74	SS	72-$179
73353		Silver/Black	7733	P	70-71 ID	SS
110.571	NC	Black/Black	11	M	77	Black PVD SS Case
110.573	B	Blue/Black	11	M	74, 77, 78	SS
110.573	F	Grey/Black	11	M	74	SS
150.573	B	Blue/Black	11	M	74	SS
150.573	F	Grey/Black	11	M	74	SS
371.253	N	Black + LCD		P	78, 81	SS
371.255	CH	Champagne/LCD		P	78, 81	GP
371.253	G	Silver/LCD Black Bezel		P	78, 81	SS
510.511		Black	5100	P	86	Black PVD SS/Bracelet	86-$415 86-$380 (Strap)
510.523		SS	5100	P	-	SS
Last Updated: 2003.05.18.23.48.32 - CM3
These tables were compiled by and are the property of Bruce Mackie, Hans Schrag, Chuck Maddox and Jeff Stein (OnTheDash); Unauthorized use is prohibited. Contact Jeff Stein for information about authorized uses. Copyright � 2003 by the above. Last Updated: 2003.05.16.09.58.55 - CM3

For the most part I would say that of the micro-rotor movements the c.11 is the more highly prized (12-Hour register is more desirable in most people's books) than the c.15. Using Jeff's scale of 1.0 being a Valjoux 72 Dato 12, I'd peg the c.11 Carrera's in the .5 to .6 range, with the c.15 probably be closer to the 4.25 to 5 range. While some collectors make a point to collect micro-rotor movements, many collectors like to stick with the more common, and usually easier parts availablity, v.72.
Of the Valjoux 773x series, the 7736 is considered the most desirable with it's value being very near to the c.11 range of .5 to .6 maybe even up to .65. It too is a Tri-Compax layout, but the 7736 is a movement made with more of an eye towards mass production than the v.72. Of the remaining 773x series their values are certainly no better than the low end of the C.15's and are probably lower, I'd put them at .4 to .425 myself. The fact that the v.773x movement is considered a bow to mass production and is not as attractive to collectors, in most instances, as the c.72 effects these prices.

That leaves the Lemania 5100 movement Carrera's from the early and mid 1980's and the first slew of TAG-Heuer Re-Editions. The 5100 Carrera's are typically in the .55 to .675 range for the Stainless Steel 510.523, and .575 to 7 for the rarely seen 510.511. The TAG-Heuer Re-Editions typically fetch in the .7 to .8 range for stainless steel, and the rarely seen Gold version in the 1.3 to 1.5 range, being the only model to bump into the range that Jeff defined for the V.72's.

A couple of notes.

These values are merely based what I've seen in my travels, and frankly I have not seen a lot of Carrera's offered for sale recently save the Re-Editions (a few) and the newer ETA/Dubois-Depraz models (more). These values are my assesment as to what a pretty good example (not perfect, not seriously compromised) would likely fetch on eBay or one of the many watch sales forums. Don't be upset if you think the values are a little on the high or low side, but rather post your opinion! =)

As for the ETA/Dubois-Depraz model... These are really too new for there to be much call for 2nd hand sales. Personally I'd recommend skiping them unless they really speak to you.

Thirdly, I didn't really cover the Carrera 45 or Carrera 45 Dato, as I've not seen more than one of either posted and I frankly don't follow them much at all. I'd love for someone else to post their opinions on them.

I should also note that the Lemania 5100 if not actually out of production, will likely shortly be out of production across the board. At last check both Tutima and Sinn still offered 5100 models, but more and more new Sinn models are Valjoux 7750 based which would lead me to think they are running out of stock. Tutima seems to be ok for now. I'm not sure what will happen when the 5100 finally goes out of production, but a number of people have been emailing me looking for a 5100 to purchase before they are gone, these purchasers may have an effect on the prices a 5100 would fetch.

just trying to get ahold on where and why the values are placed. thanks in advance.

No problem, that's why we're all here!

sorry, i'm sure this has been covered many times over, just wished i hadn't missed it.

No actually, I don't think we've delved this deep into Carrera Minutae yet. Jeff has proclaimed 5764 to be the year of the Carrera table and your post caused me to take a long look at the existing Carrera table (and the MOAT too) and notice some deficencies that we'll be address ing in the comming weeks. For example the Carrera 45 and Carrera Dato 45 isn't in the Carrera table at the moment.

j.h.