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Buy This Watch . . . Now ! ! ! Posted By: jeff stein Date: 10/23/07 03:36 GMT
I know that we try to keep this Discussion Forum entirely non-commercial, but I am declaring this one-time exception to the rule!! I think we as moderators get to declare a once per year [except for quarterly Trading Fairs - which we are at least 6 weeks over due for one] exception for special circumstances of seeming general interest to typical forum members.
I declared one a few years back with the availability of Nick Garbarro's Bros Perf straps, this would seem to be to be another suitable and permissable exception.
Last Thursday evening, during a late night surfing sesssion, I found that Guinand (the brand currently owned / operated / inspired by the legendary Helmut Sinn) will be making a new series of 100 chronographs, to be powered by our beloved Caliber 12 . . . that's right, these new chronographs will use the Cal 12 movement!! Beloved? Hmmm... They are good movement's and I like them, but... Beloved?
It's very cool that one can get new watches using them though
Here is a PDF that provides some additional information, but here is what I know (or think I know): [snip]
• Yes, I am buying one . . . the first new watch I will have purchased, ever in my life (other than plastic running watches)
I'll have to think about purchase of one at the price they are asking.
So let me ask the questions: 
Have the rest of you guys seen this watch? Truth be told, I hadn't until you told me about it.
What do you think of it? I think it's a very cool design... Very modern and up to date. It's bezel kinda reminds me of the Sinn 757 styling: 
Is this just my sense of nostalgia and love of the Cal 12 that made me rush to order this watch, Only you know the answer to that one Jeff!
or do others agree that this is a great looking watch . . . It's a great looking watch, I can't deny that. 
check out those blued screws!! Unfortunately at 3290€ thats, lets pull out the olé currency exchange page..., YIKES! That's $ 4,689.57 USD! Nearly $4,700! Before shipping! That's worse than I thought! I might be able to justify $3,290 or even $3,500 but nearly $5,000... Unfortunately, I'm doubting my ability to justify it.
And now, the final question: If TAG-Heuer had made this watch back in 2003, as the re-issue of the Autavia let's say in the black colour scheme and the Siffert colour scheme), would we all be wearing them? At the asking price set upon it, I doubt it. But at a more favorable exchange rate / price, the answer is a resounding yes.
Jeff
A footnote to all this: This past Friday morning, I called the Guinand offices, at 8:15 a.m. (local time in Germany), and Mr. Sinn (age 91) was already at work!! That doesn't surprise me in the least. My Grandfather [Mr. Maddox, or Chuck #1] was 95 and a half when he had the stroke which eventually did him in. He woke up that morning, showered, got himself dressed [business shirt, jacket and slacks, had breakfest sat down and had a stroke. It would seem that Herr Sinn is cut from the same or similar cloth. I wish him many many more active years!
my personal opinion Posted By: ralf Date: 10/23/07 10:29 GMT
In Response To: Buy This Watch . . . Now ! ! ! (jeff stein)
Hello and good day,
my honest opinion is that the watch is qite nice and cool, I like huge divers watches and I also own 2 vintage pieces from Sinn he sold in the 1970s. One of these 2 for example uses the same case the Blancpain 50 fathoms Military watch uses (crown at 4). I agree. I also own a Cal 11 or Cal 12 Chronosport [with a whiz wheel to boot] that I really like.
On the new limited Caliber 12 watch I have to admit that the Name and Label Guinand just does not justify this price. It is a bit pricey even in Germany it would seem. With an even Euro to Dollar Exchange I'd be tempted, with a exchange difference in the opposite direction [favorable to those with dollars] like existed in the early 2000's, I'd probably be placing an order.
But ...
We all surely like to invest our hard earned Dollars, Euros or Yen on a in value basis durable watch. I'd be willing to pay to have one of the last of the new C.12's. But it's a lot of cash, Christmastime is comming up. Upgrades to Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard are very close at hand [I have to purchase a new round of Hard Drives today or tomorrow]... It's tough to buy it all.
But unfortunately the Chronosport and Guinand watches Mr. Sinn is assembling since he sold Sinn, are far away from the ones produced under the brandname Sinn regarding reputation and other market relevant characteristics. I think they are probably of the same quality and durability as the Sinn products he produced, but Chronosport and Guinand aren't as well known as names.
This is surely just my personal opinion. I`d always prefer to spend maybe 800.- US$ for a vintage Diver Sinn than a 4 times higher price for a limited new watch. While I wouldn't go that far, One could probably buy a new Sinn 757 UTC on a Bracelet and still have money left over for a used Sinn Space One on a bracelet with some money to spare [perhaps for servicing of the Space One] for the same cost as one of the Cal. 11's. It gives one pause no matter how much one would like the C.12 LE.
Sincere greeting Always a pleasure to see you post Ralf! Always!
The "Guinand" Name / 427 Engine ? ? ? Posted By: jeff stein Date: 10/23/07 11:53 GMT
In Response To: my personal opinion (ralf)
I will agree that the "Guinand" name does not carry any goodwill or value, at least here in the United States. I'd suspect there is next to - 0 - brand name awareness in the US... I mean save for me and thee and the readers in this forum, I doubt that the good fellows over in our distinguished competition over at WUS and TZ in their Omega and TAG-Heuer Discussion Forums have much brand awareness of the Guinand name. To most people it's just a French sounding word/name.
Chronosport probably would have more cachet as there were some vintage Chronosport watches which some people may remember.
The name is difficult to pronounce; the heritage is unknown, at least here in the US; people who do know the name may associate it with stopwatches, which are not especially valuable. Exactly. [Well, I don't know about the Stopwatch thing, at least not like you do Jeff]
Perhaps Helmut Sinn's adoption of the Guinand name is like Carroll Shelby being involved with Oldsmobile or the "kit cars" / replicas later in his career . . . Oldsmobile? I thought it was Dodge/Plymouth that Shelby teamed himself up with in the 1980's [which produced some interesting econoboxes and the Viper]. He worked with Olds too? It goes to show how much of a splash he made with Olds!
not the same heritage or collectibility as the Fords, but there may still be some "keepers" for those who admire his work. I can't remember the last Omni/Horizon Shelby show though.
To me, the appeal of this watch is largely in its use and display of the beautifully finished (legendary) movement. Make no mistake, I do like the rest of the watch . . . but I am buying the old 427 Ford engine (or maybe the 289), which Shelby / Sinn is now mounting in a nice looking body. Understood. And more power to you, especially if you can get a cool number. But, gosh goodness almighty that's a price tag.
Jeff | 
