Hi Mark, we are aligned.....as said likely its carrera stuff we see here .....

I also think we need to reconsider or check with heuer about these hands on an Autavia: also with the sifferts not only the viceroys.....

It will be a big "AHA" I guess and we are very much back to a much easier set of "MARK" watches....even some people with these hands will be very unhappy I think.

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this would mean:

Mark "0" chronomatics
Mark 1 Siffert or VIC = big block, call 11, 36912, steel hands
Mark 2 Siffert or VIC = black line block, cal 12, 1-12, vic hands

For me this is/was the most logical set of watches

Of course there can be intermediate and, "have also seen this and that"....but if you design something in life: you would go like this I think....

And yes we have the V and U discussion but this might come from 2 producers of dials....like they used 3 for the bezels...I have the names somewhere.... :-)

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Anybody have this connection to check with them?
ape

: ...were definitely factory fitment for Carreras from the launch of
: the 1153, with serials in the block 147xxx - 150xxx. Also for
: the manual Carreras in that same case (except crown on the
: right) from 151xxx to 156999.

: Within that range, though, we do see the odd exception with second
: execution hands and in two examples even third execution. In
: fact, I even own one with second execution hands. It is however,
: at the top end of the first batch of 1153s so it was possible
: they were using the hands with painted edges at that point. For
: the earlier examples, and any using third execution hands, I
: have to conclude those hands have been replaced later, at
: service or elsewhere.

: But we were talking Autavias, and those seem to use the plain steel
: hands without inserts at launch, i.e. in the same timeframe as
: Carreras were using hands with inserts. This 1970 catalogue even
: shows the Autavias with plain hands as opposed to the Carrera's
: with inserts:

: http://www.onthedash.com/Guide/_Catalogs/1970_Chronograph_Catalog/

: How reliable catalogues are, however, is open to question as some
: early ones also show Carreras with plain hands and I have never
: seen an unmolested second gen Carrera with anything other than
: the insert hands, painted edge hands of two different widths or
: the different hands used on the 110.253 revisions. Never plain
: steel hands.

: I wonder if some of the Autavias found themselves with Carrera
: hands at some point? Obviously they fit, as the pinion holes are
: identical, given the movements are also the same. Whether at
: service, or later is quite difficult to tell at this time. What
: sort of frequency do we see Autavias with these hands?

: One possible theory - Heuer was slightly surprised at the scale of
: the response to the Viceroy promotion, this seems fairly
: evident. This probably lead to some stock shortages and a short
: term solution may well have been to fit Carrera hands at the
: factory, given that Carrera parts were probably stocked in
: higher numbers. Is there any correlation between Autavias with
: insert hands and that promotion? I remember having seen the
: Viceroy ad, but can't find it now - anyone recall the exact
: configuration of the watch shown in that ad?