I am new to the International Vintage Heuer Owners Club Facebook group [located here -- http://www.facebook.com/groups/vintageheuer/], and do not have a good sense of the dynamics of this group . . . who are the good guys; who are the bad guys; what are the issues and bonds / purposes in the community. A few days ago, there were postings about some sort of problems in the group / community. It seems that these postings were triggered by the deletion of a link to a completed auction, in which an 18 Karat Gold Carrera (Ref 1158) had sold for what was viewed as a high price. Most of the Facebook postings in this chain are copied below.

It is difficult to understand and describe the dynamics of a community, when the community communicates primarily by Facebook messages, or even by longer discussion forum messages. It becomes more difficult when many of the participants are communicating in a language that is not their primary language. The final complicating factor is that participants post messages screaming that there is a problem, or that they are upset, or that the hobby of vintage watch collecting has been “poisoned”, but they will not state exactly what that problem might be.

I sense that the problem referred to in the Facebook postings must revolve around money (or the discussion of money). It seems that some members of the group suggest that others are too focused on the prices of the watches (and perhaps trying to push them higher), and members of the group do not like all this money talk. Of course, we also have elements of competition, jealousy, arrogance, greed and selfishness, offset by cooperation, support, humility, giving and sharing. Put all this in a bag, shake it up for a while, and it’s difficult to suggest what the result will be!!

I had decided not to raise this subject on our forum, but -- in view of Ron’s thoughtful message -- let me suggest that we raise this subject with the following questions: “How can we improve the community in 2013?” or “What can we do better in the future?” Of course, asking for positive recommendations bleeds over into the questions of “What is wrong?”, so anyone should feel free to discuss the past or the future, from either perspective.

Personally, I have enjoyed this hobby and this community (almost) every day for the last 10 years, but I am sure that there is room for improvement. We all have our pet peeves, just as we all have aspects of the hobby that we particularly enjoy. I have lots of thoughts on the subject, but will leave it to others to get the discussion going.

Please . . . share your thoughts!! What can we do better in 2013?

Jeff

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1. Arno Michael Haslinger: This link I have posted yesterday seems to have disappeared from the forum -- http://www.ebay.de/itm/221162869493
2. Paolo Bernardi: It seems me that too much posts are deleted.
3. Gianvittorio Molteni: Very soon I will delete myself because I'm tired -- very tired -- to read again these stupid considerations. Please keep this area like a game, and not too serious. This is not a bank or a factory. It's only a game and f**k the money and opportunism. Understand?
4. Arno Michael Haslinger: Consideration, money Opp ? What do you [mean] GV ?
5. Gianvittorio Molteni: Sometimes something is missing here. Very often the scene seems a war act, not a friend's club, sincere and serene. There's someone very interested in business, others in personal prestige. I am the founder of this page, and my purpose was FUN.HEUER ARE FUN, only 2 or 3model are "important", but when the simple fun became a war of money and interests, I don't want to play this game. THE MISSING POSTS: Stop this communications. Nobody here wants to delete something else.
   I hope this is the last time, or I will cancel myself forever.
6. Jeff Stein: ? ? ? ? ?
7. Stefano Sanavio: Dear Jeff, GVM wants to express an important concept with his position. Watch vintage collecting is poisoned, it has become a question of money, the true value of this hobby has got lost (history, men, enterprises). I can only be in full agreement with him. I have been trying to raise such issue on the Italian forums for the past two years but as a result I have been cut off. Please, GVM, go on in this way.
8. Sandra Silva Galindo: Well said Stefano, I agree with your statement and the way you express it. Passion should always prevail and thank you GVM for always giving this spirit to collecting vintage watches.
9. Jeff Stein: Maybe I am blind to it, or maybe I am part of the problem (??), but I do not see this change . . . at least over the 10 to 12 years that I have been collecting the vintage Heuers. By the way, I see the same complaints about the art, automobile and wine markets, so perhaps this is a broader social phenomenon.
10. Jeff Stein: As an aside, I do not understand how any group can function in which moderators are too quick in deleting messages. This should only occur when there is an emergency, criminal activity, etc., IMHO.
11. Stefano Sanavio: GVM’s words fully describe the difficult situation in which serious collectors of vintage watches find themselves today. They suffer because the true values of timepieces collecting are no longer respected.
12. Joseph Pellegrini: I usually have one opinion in most discussions but frankly, I have to agree with GVM and with Jeff here. That being said, when one collects anything of beauty and of value, there are always two sides and if one is to be honest with himself, if what he/she collects is valuable in terms of the open market, then he/she must consider that even if only to protect that investment. When most of us began collecting Heuers, we really didn't see what was coming in terms of values, inflated prices, etc. but now that these wonderful pieces have become objects of desire, financially speaking, one must protect his/her interests by determining value for insurance purposes, etc. This cannot be avoided.
13. Jeff Stein: I'm sorry . . . I still do not understand the problem. Can you be more specific about the problems that you see? I have had fun with this hobby every day, for over a decade. Yes, some minor problems along the way, some jerks who are difficult to deal with, but the community and resources are better than ever. Maybe we can move this discussion to the OTD discussion forum, so that people can express themselves more fully. But I must be missing the point of all this.