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And very good thoughts at that! Posted By: John Spencer

Eh, I try!

Date: 2/11/04 17:44 GMT In Response To: SomeThoughts… (Chicagoland Chuck Maddox)


Thanks very much for the response - your comments have been invaluable - primarily in underlining my suspicions.

Very cool... pleased to hear they were, and so quickly too!

For some reason high street "jewellers", who (by and large, I suspect) wouldn't know the difference between one watch movement and another, seem reluctant to admit that the watch that they're trying to sell for £2,000 is based on an inferior movement to the superceded model! One sales assistant actually told me that the new Carrera was better because it "had all mod cons" (presumably including a Pentium 4?)!!

...all mods cons... Colour me confused...

Seriously, the first rule for Salesmen: Sell what you have in stock or would like to move first. The "pluses" for the newer Carrera is that it's auto-winding (that this feature is a plus is another value judgement... Some people prefer manual winds), and/or it has a date. That's it. The minuses we've discussed or I've at least pointed to them...

Since posting (and your response) I have checked out the Monza (nice looking beast, but I need to join a gym) and looked at the website you linked

In the spirit of full disclosure, I am the author (Speedmaster Reduced) and co-author (Carrera 1990's and now) of those linked articles. Although I think much of those sections in the Carrera article are my "stream of thought" as opposed to my co-laborator's Matthias's...

You can find additional articles, catalogs, ad's and information, on Omega's Heuer's and many other brands, by clicking on the link in the footer of this message or via either link that follows here: (Article index @

and as a result have now set my heart on the Lemania Carrera. Thanks!

I own two and they are VERY cool watches. Easily capture the spirit of the Original Carrera models.

One thing that I still struggle with however is the comparison with the Speedmaster models; The Speedmaster reduced (ETA) is about half the price of the Speedy Pro (Lemania),

The Speedy Reduced SRP's at something like $1,495 US, the Moonwatch something like $2,595 US...

whereas the relationship for the Carrera 64 (Lemania) and the current Carrera (ETA) is reversed.

You are comparing a used Carrera(Lemania) and a new Carrera (ETA) Apples and Oranges... So we are comparing two variables, which makes it difficult to isolate the information to one vairable or another.

One doesn't see a lot off used ETA Carrera's yet, and one see's few new Lemania Based Carrera's these days. In fact, I bought mine used in Fall 1999 (black dial from William Chu a private dealer) and Summer 2000 (Silver Dial off of eBay). As time goes on, one will see more and more used ETA based models, and it'll be easier to devine meaning from what we observe. Unfortunately, we will not likely ever see the opposite: more new Lemania Based models, as Lemania (owned by Swatch Group) no longer sells Lemania movements to firms outside it's corporate umbrella.

In fact, Swatch Group is reportedly moving towards not selling ETA based base movements to outside firms in the future, but only "prepared ebauches". What the future holds for ETA based chronographs for not ETA firms is murky at best. The good news for LVMH, is that they have a very capable manufacturer in Zenith, however Zenith is not known for producing low-end movements. So it's unknown what LVMH's strategy will be for the ETA based movements used in TAG-Heuer models.

I think the answer is just to get hold of my Carrera before anyone notices!

Let me know if you'd like any assistance. Even case material/dial color.

I own the Silver Dial and Black Dial in Stainless, and an Original Valjoux 72 based white dial also in stainless. But I think I know where there are a silver/SS and a Silver/Gold model available currently.

If asked my opinion, I think the Silver/SS model is the one to get. Dial looks like a bead blasted micrometre. Very classy, works well in both dress and casual applications, but the black dial is very nice, and the Black Dial "Daytona Ring" model is very intreging...

Once again many thanks for your help!!

Helping each other out is what it's all about, or at least it's what it should be all about.

Cheers, and GOOD HUNTING!

-- Chuck

Chuck Maddox

(Article index @

Non-Pasadena Pasadena Stainless 7750

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