Thanks, Andy, for this excellent contribution to this amazing thread.

We have had this discussion forum for just over nine years, and this has definitely been one of our most informative, balanced discussions. Between your message, and the previous ones from the watchmakers, I believe that we have captured the key technical aspects of this movement.

Over the weekend, I will try to save some of the messages in a more permanent, easy-to-skim blog posting, and I want to thank everyone for the great contributions.

Jeff

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: First of all I'd like to thank the various contributors of this
: excellent thread for their balanced and generally well thought
: out views; watchmakers and collectors alike.

: I particularly found the watchmakers side to be interesting and it
: was good to see they were mindful of how people can like
: something which isn't necessarily flawless!

: I have collected Lemanias for a few years now, brought on by the
: omnipresent Pascal, Chuck, Dave S and company, all far more
: knowledgable than I. Anything I have learnt has been on their
: shoulders, certainly, but any errors here are mine alone!

: So, to go on to a few of the interesting points I picked up on
: reading through here -

: 1. Apart from the dial-side operations, there is little the 134x
: and the 5100 have in common. The 134x is a more sophisticated
: movement in many respects. Why was the 5100 developed then?
: Because Piguet and Baumgartner were tasked with providing an
: automatic chronograph movement which would be cheaper and easier
: (i.e. cheaper) to produce than the 134x range. This is one of
: the reasons 'alarm clock' pillar construction and pressed parts
: were used as opposed to more expensive machining.

: 2. Plastic. The plastic used is actually a DuPont acetal
: polyoxymethylene resin called Delrin™, which is also used,
: albeit to a lesser degree, in the 7750 and post-'74 Omega 861
: for example. Its main properties are strength and
: self-lubrication; so not a choice driven by cost alone (one can
: only summise on the ratio of cost/benefit given to the SIHH
: engineers). Cheap 7750 Chinese copies use metal instead of
: Delrin. There is only one Lemania 5100 powered watch which has a
: full display back as standard (the innards are not pretty - no
: dispute there!), the Alan Silberstein Krono Bauhaus, where much
: of the 'plastic' has been playfully coloured.

: 3. 5100/1045 - there is indeed no real difference between the
: calibres, the only changes were the 'Omega' engraving on the
: rotor and the addition of a beryllium coating (sometimes
: mislabelled as 'rose gold').

: 4. 376.0822 - the 'Grail' as defined by Chuck; yes, to a certain
: degree, 'plastic', is found in the 'grail', as per any other
: 5100 watch, should we be horrified? Well, not really (see
: above). The term 'grail' now seems to indicate some impossibly
: faultless, perfect watch, (which wasn't the original
: definition/idea), the 'deification' of certain watches can
: sometimes be unhelpful in that it magnifies their flaws
: sometimes out of context. My view on the 376.0822 is that it is
: perhaps the last natural evolution of the 'moonwatch' that had
: been powered by Lemania base movements for thirty years or so;
: an automatic, a day / date, focus on readability, robust - it
: brought it right up to date, keeping the essential
: characteristics of the original whilst offering more in terms of
: functionality.

: In the realm of the automatic chronograph there are a few examples
: of outstanding or interesting models; the Zenith El Primero, the
: ubiquitous workhorse 7750, the historic cal. 11/12 and, to my
: eye, the Lemania 5100. In the same way I can understand why
: someone would become fascinated, transfixed almost, by the EP, I
: seem to have got hung up on the L5100....why?

: Mainly due to the central minute chronograph: To understand how
: good this is, and frankly, how bad it makes all others look, you
: really need to see and use one. In effect, the whole watch dial
: becomes the minute subdial, not only effectively magnifying it
: 3-fold, but also putting it on a 60 minute scale rather than a
: 30 minute one. This means that a 'read' is both intuitive - you
: can see how far through the hour you are instantly without
: referring to an hour subdial or mentally changing scales, and
: legible - at the end of a swinging arm a quick glance will show
: you pretty accurately whereabouts you are in terms of elapsed
: time. No need to hold the watch up to the face, squint at the
: subdial and calculate what a 5 o'clock position means on a 30min
: scale.

: Manufacturers: Happily enough most of the 5100 powered watches are
: right up my alley in terms of aesthetic. Following the movement
: brings you into contact with Omega, Heuer, Sinn, Tutima, Lemania
: itself of course plus a variety of lesser known makes, so this
: gives a bit of perspective over watches in general I think. I
: can also explore my other prediliction in terms of issued
: military watches within the Lemania family (the 1872 SwAF/SAAFs,
: the 2220 RN/RAF issued asymmetrics included).

: To answer your original questions Jeff:

: •As a collector, what do you think of the Lemania 5100
: movement? What do you like and dislike about the movement (or
: the chronographs that use the movement)?

: As above; readability, reliability, 'agricultural' intent, mindful
: of course of potentially larger servicing costs ;)

: •Have you ever had any problems with any of your chronographs
: that use this movement?

: I've worn my EZM1 95% of the time over three years, I actively use
: the chronograph in practise (I run every day) and have used it
: regularly both in the desert and the wild Scottish hills, I've
: used it during events such as the Marathon des Sables, the
: Scottish Ultra, numerous Mountain Marathons and just daily life.
: It's not 'looked after' very much, it's just 'my watch', same as
: a non-watch person would treat it. Has it performed flalessly?
: Yes, absolutely. Will it go wrong in the future? Of course, any
: watch may or may not trip up at some stage. My others are used
: less, but again, they all perform much the same as any other
: watch - accurate enough and robust enough.

: •Which are your favorite chronographs that are powered by the
: Lemania 5100?

: EZM1 is definitely at the peak for me, albeit with reduced
: functionality compared to others. The combination of focus,
: Sinns engineering that left no part of the watch or dial
: unthought about and its readability (courtesy of the 5100) make
: this number one for me. Every time.
: Secondly probably my Lemania SAAF, which has the slower beat
: version of the 5100, the 5012. It too has a particular 'Zen'
: like design focus, allied to an old world charm and unique
: military provenance. Third place is difficult, probably most of
: my others, the 376.0822 is there, the Lorenz Sub-Pro, the Sinn
: 156...in fact...yes...they are all in third place I think!

: •All else being equal, do you believe that these chronographs
: will be as collectible as chronographs with the
: "classic" movements (for example, the Valjoux 72)?

: I think they will certainly have their place in the pantheon. How
: wide an audience they will have is subject to the vaguaries of
: fashion and culture I guess.

: •Any further thoughts about the Lemania 5100 family of
: movements?

: I think I've said too much already!

: Anyway, some pics are always nice:

: The meagre gathering:

:
:
: (l-r: Heuer 510.501 L5100, SAAF Lemania L5012, Tissot Navigator
: L1343, Sinn EZM1 LE L5100, Sinn 156, 1st Gen. L5100, Lorenz
: L5100, Omega 376.0822 cal. 1045)

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: Andy