The largest independent, non-commercial, consumer-oriented resource on the Internet for owners, collectors and enthusiasts of fine wristwatches. Online since 1998.
Informational Websites ChronoMaddox -- the legacy of Chuck Maddox OnTheDash -- vintage Heuer website Zowie -- Omega information
Discussion Forums ChronoMaddox Forum Heuer Forum Omega Forum
Counterfeit Watchers ChronoTools Forum ChronoTrader Forum
Vintage Heuer Discussion Forum
The place for discussing 1930-1985 Heuer wristwatches, chronographs and dash-mounted timepieces. Online since May 2003.
OnTheDash Home What's New! Price Guide Chronographs Dash Mounted Collection
Re: The Indianapolis Autavias – Some Questions and Answers

For the most part, I agree with all the points you made below, however I do disagree with the one point in reference to the girl who sold the last two dials (one in beat up shape and the other in mint condition). Since I purchased the last dial from her directly, I did have a discussion regarding this matter, and she bluntly told me that she has no more dials, so there were no hints or indications that she has more to come. So not sure who heard what from who, but this is what came straight from her mouth to me (not hearsay).

Can she be dishonest, it's possible, but I did not get that impression from her. Even the theory that this new dial from yesterday was hers, but disguised as someone else, is logically false. If you allow me to explain.... I paid significantly more for my dial than what yesterday's dial sold for. In addition, I am aware of other collectors who were offering strong money for her dial as well, just a tad less than my offer, which was still significantly more than yesterday's sale. This being said, if the seller was the same person that sold the last two, she would not have "given" the dial away for 10k. She was very aware of the value of what she had, and smart enough to be able to get much more than 10k.

Based on this logic, I believe we had a new seller, who got very excited at 10k, not realizing the real value, nor the fact that one sold a few weeks ago and for how much. Had he let the auction run, it would have been very interesting to see the end result publicly, and I am confident the seller would have been even more surprised (probably shocked)! LOL!

In addition, let's keep in mind that the first one we saw a few months ago, the condition was fairly beaten up and it sold for ~3.5k less than this mint looking one from yesterday at 10k. Someone got a heck of a deal yesterday, and I am excited to see it out in the wild hopefully with someone we know. Congrats to whomever was able to score this new one! Wear in good health!

I also am a bit confused on the total count that was discussed? What am I missing here?

1) There have been 3 loose dials that I am aware of and all three were on ebay this year. Who or where else are the other 2 dials been sold? Any specifics?

2) "Two that have history to support originality" - Which two pieces are these?

3) "Two that on the face of things appear to / could be be original" - Which two pieces are these?

I was under the impression that there were 3 pieces total (combined with both "supported original" and "appear original"), not 4 pieces.

I am aware of the one that sold at Christies (so that is 1), Jeff you have one (so that is 2), and there is the Tag museum one, which we can call #3. Not sure where or who might own a 4th one?

So if I do my math correctly, based on facts that I have seen, there are 3 dials out there and three watches. Am I missing something? And for fun, let's just say in 10 years, we discover there are a total of 20 of these pieces out there, is that still not rare? LOL!

What do people consider rare? From my Rolex friends, I keep hearing this Paul Newman or that Sub...but come on guys, how many of those do you see on a daily basis? :) At the end of the day, all these pieces are all still damn watches that tell us time, and we are just crazy people who spend a ton of our time and money running after them. If you are not seeing a therapist yet, you are welcome to join me at my Watchaholic Anonymous meetings every last Thursday of the month! LOL!

Enjoy your week my friends!


: It’s been a busy day in the vintage Heuer world, with a loose
: dial for an Autavia Reference 3646, with the Indianapolis Motor
: Speedway “Wings and Wheel” logo selling on eBay, for a
: $10,000 BuyItNow price. Below, some questions asked and answered
: during the day in some Facebook discussions and email messages.

: Question: Were these watches sold in the Indianapolis Motor
: Speedway (“IMS”) gift shop or distributed through some other
: channel?

: Answer: We know that Tony Hulman, owner of the IMS from 1946 until
: his death in 1977, gave away at least two of these Autavias as
: gifts to his friends. We can assume that Hulman ordered the
: Autavias, and good evidence suggests that they were never sold
: through the gift shop.

: Question: What about the suggestion by one collector that he had
: seen trays of these dials, a long time ago?

: Answer: Upon further inquiry, this gentleman indicated that the
: loose IMS dials in tray might have been Carrera dials. This
: seems consistent with the quantity of Carreras that we have
: seen, as well as the location of some loose dials, some years
: ago. There is no evidence of anyone owning a tray full of the
: Autavia dials.

: Question: Where are these loose dials coming from? And how is it
: that we have seen three of them come onto the market since May
: 2017?

: Answer: The loose dials that we are seeing seem to be coming from
: sellers who have obtained them from retired Heuer watchmakers.
: The three dials sold since May 2017 have both come from sellers
: located within easy commuting distance from Heuer headquarters,
: in Springfield, New Jersey. It seems logical that the loose
: dials are coming onto the market now, after we saw Christie’s
: sell one of the IMS Autavias for $199,500, in June 2017.

: Question: Do we expect to see more of these, coming onto the
: market?

: Answer: It’s difficult to know what will come onto the market.
: The seller of the two loose dials sold in May and July 2017
: would not confirm that she does not have any more of these.
: People who have chatted with her expect to see more of these
: dials.

: Question: Why the forensic work and unusual interest in these
: particular watches?

: Answer: Other than the vintage Heuers worn by Steve McQueen and the
: gold Carrera worn by Formula One driver Ronnie Peterson, the IMS
: Autavia sold by Christie’s in June 2017 is the most expensive
: vintage Heuer that we have seen. With the high value of the
: original watches, it makes sense to try to keep track of the
: loose dials that could overhang the market.

: Jeff

: IMS Autavia, sold by Christie’s, June 21, 2017

: Loose dial sold on eBay, August 2017

: Loose dial sold on eBay, July 2017

: Loose dial sold on eBay, May 2017


: ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

: :

Current Position
Chronocentric and zOwie site design and contents (c) Copyright 1998-2005, Derek Ziglar; Copyright 2005-2008, Jeffrey M. Stein. All rights reserved. Use of this web site constitutes acceptance of the terms of use. CONTACT | TERMS OF USE | TRANSLATE