zOwie Omega Discussion Forum

1)In the past Eta was never rated and could never compete in terms of quality with Rolex inhouse and Omega inhouse movements. The eta 2892-a2 appeared in 1975 but at that time it wasn't able to mtach the quality of the Omega 1010 and 1020 calibres and even two years later when the first generation of rolex 28800bph appeared the 303x, the eta 2892 couldn't match their quality either. I can't compare a movement built inhouse with strict quality controls and a movement built in millions and with nothing exceptional in terms of quality, reliability, accuracy and finish.Products using ok quality movements will never get cudos from me, would Omega be using Lemania 8810 or perhaps Piguet 1150 ebauche as base or an inhouse ebauche for the coaxial then I would have a totally other opinion. The 2892-2 is good but it is far to meet the excellence of quality of its predecessors. Just ask any experienced watchmaker what they think about vintage Omega movements.

But as usual you are dealing in the PAST Georges, the fact is that since acquisition by the SMH the quality of the ETA movements in their higher tier brands, namely Omega, Hamilton, and Longines have gone up greatly from that of the ETA movements of the past. Also I love it when you mention something made in the millions with nothing exceptional in terms of quality and finish as those two terms seem to exemplify Rolex, their movement finish is somewhat laughable as is from my experience their finish work on the watches themselves. IMHO the 2892-A2 is more than simply "good" when one considers what pieces it finds itself in from high grade Omega's to Ulysee Nardin and also many top quality IWC pieces, not to menton Cartier and others, would you suggest that the quality of those brands is somewhat suspect given that they also choose the 2892 for their base?

The coaxial was mainly tested in laboratories but not in daily wear and about the central tourbillon, is something that must be put part because it is built by highly trained watchmakers at Omega.But fact is that the coax 2500 is not manufactured by Omega but by Eta for Omega.

I have said it time and time again, the real winning point with the 2500 isn't so much the co axial but rather the balance, and regardless of manufactuer the "fact" is that every 2500 that has been examined has been a much better finished movement with tighter quality control than any Rolex modern movement I have seen or read about. Plus their performance is commented on daily here and elsewhere with many owners being very happy with the performance of their watches.

3) That was before 2000, now Rolex uses their own balance wheel, dials and crowns. You were the one in the past who said that a grand seiko was better than an Omega even if Seiko is just a middle of the range manufacturer

For Rolex I am still under the impression that they have a few suppliers for dials as well as other components which is why with dials there is often variation in the printing of the text. As for the Seiko comment I stand by that, Grand Seiko is an awesome line of watches with finish work that far surpasses both Rolex and Omega, but they come at a price that is indicitive of that level of workmanship, still a bargain when compared to Rolex but Omega IMHO is still a better deal as on average their street prices are less.

4)I was given by my uncle for christmas a 1993 montblanc meisterstück 146 that writes perfectly. Montblanc quality lousy? You gotta be kidding me. My uncle has several montblanc fountain pens from the 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's that never had problems. I also own a 1951 parker vacumatic that has never known a single problem. Montblanc makes top quality pens but if you don't know how to care about it then it is your fault. Pelikan makes nice pens as does Jean Pierre Lepine, Cartier, Parker, Waterman, Dunhill, Namiki, Sailor, Olga Aloy, Cross and Shaeffer. But don't tell me that italian pens like Montegrappa, Visconti, Omas, Aurora, Delta, Stipula and Ferrari Da Varese are better than Montblanc when these brands appeared later than montblanc (which is one of the oldest pen manufacturers with parker, waterman and shaeffer) and have never made iconic pens like the Meisterstück 149 widely reknown as one of the best foutain pens ever produced. Italian fountain pens are very nice aesthetically but the quality of the nib is far to meet the quality of the German, American and Japanese fountain pens and is not as smooth as them. I baught last saturday a 1992 Montblanc 149 at the price of 100€ from a guy because his son has broken the refill pump but the nib was in perfect condition so I sent it to repair. To be honest with you, I never considered Italian products (cars, pens, watches, etc) as reliable products despite their aesthetics

So you use one singular example of a modern pen as your baseline for their quality, I have owned upwards of ten modern montblanc pens Georges as well as more than a few other brands, including Pelikan, Waterman, Cross, and Namiki to name a few. The Montblancs have all left me wanting, with the fountains all writing exceptionally poor when compared to any of the aforementioned pens/brands...their build quality is a joke in terms of construction and their writing performance is average. I would be hard pressed to consider their standard Meistersuck line as "top quality", rather just like Rolex they are overpriced and over hyped. The only reason that two remain in my collection is because they were gifts from my wife and thus I "love" them. I would easily rather any of those italian brands over that of Montblanc in terms of build and performance not to mention price and value, also I fail to see why when then brand came onto the market is of importance, it is again indicitave with your obsession of intangibles and the past, my concern is what I get here and now not what a company did that was great a hundred or so years ago. Also I have yet to meet any collector that regards the current 149 as one of the best fountains ever produced, vintage is considered good if not great, but hardly one of the best. It is too bad Frank Dubiel has passed on as he always had some choice things to say about modern Montblanc. What is truly funny is Montblanc's efforts to distance their image from the pens and focus on silly accessories like wallets, cufflinks, watches, and other status items...their limited editions are the only nice pens they make however they come at a very steep price.

5)Proven?? The eta 2892 was and is just bought and used by firms who can't produce their own movement. The firms who buy this movement engrave the name on the movement rotor then case it and charge you more than a lot.Is the 2892 proven as the 3135? No. The 3135 was used in the Rolexes that took part in Comex missions as well as in expeditions. The testaments after 2 years are not siginificant nor revelant of what is the long term accuracy and Rolex used the free sprung balance wheel with microstella adjusting screws in 1977 so 25 years before Omega used it.

This is one of the funniest things I have to read yet, so using your logic the same can be said again of Rolex who simply bought their technology from Aegler Gruen and only as of recently decided to start making their own movement with the 4130, instead they leeched off of Zenith or continued to revise an age old design. I would be hard pressed to say that the companies like IWC, UN, Cartier and others couldn't produce their own movement as all of them have the technical prowess and resources to do so, rather they saw the ETA 2892 as being a very fine movement and would fit their bill just well. And last I checked the Co Axial 2500s have been out and about a little longer than two years. My comment on the FSB was that the design is so similar to that of the Rolex 3035 that if it worked well for one it is bound to work for the other successfully.

6)The fact that it happened doesn't make it laughable ask to John Rochowicz more details about the 1120 issue

Been there and done that and even he has said that the number of reports was rather small and have since dried up, so why complain about something that is now a non issue?, probabily a bad batch or some small mistake that has since been corrected

7)The 33xx has the biggest rate of failures ever encounted in a chrono movement built less than 5 years ago. But the rolex4130 on the other hand hasn't known such failures.In terms of quality, accuracy and power reserve, the 4130 beats the 33xx and even the zenith ep 410 and yes teh duatona 116520 is expensive but flawless quality has always a price.

There were problems with the 4130 when first released, the difference was that due to supply and demand only a few made it onto the market and were dealt with quickly. Not saying this is an excuse for Omega but a very different situation. I would hardly call the daytona flawless quality as I have read more than a few problem reports, and seeing the one new Daytona with a dial arabic printed upside down was priceless, now there is quality control for you

8)No, a Rolex is an investment just see how have grown Rolex prices. If you had bought a sea dwller in the 80's or early 90's you can resell it for big bucks and Rolex divers or gmt rarely lose their values. Today a fine 1675gmt with box and papers sells for nearly 2000-3000$ sometimes more. Fact is that Omega Bienne does sometimes amateurish work on vintage for example luminova dial and hands on a vintage or leaf non luminous hands instead of dauphine radium hands on a constellation. Breitling doesn't even repair its venus based navitimer and neither does it restore its cal 11,12 and 15 chrono. For such watches, you better have to know very experienced watchmakers. I am not also mentionning that Omega charges too much for restoration.

Like I said, decades to recoup your costs Georges, and the chances of that market duplicating itself or continuing are slim to nil Georges given the market saturation the brand now has....back then Rolex was popular but not so much as they are today. Also check any of the sales corners and look at "recent" offerings of divers and especially GMTs and tell me they don't lose value, I have been watching the market for the past six years as I have sold a few and am looking to sell my last and have found that on average a newly bought sport piece if sold will lose at least a thousand US if in stainless, much more if two tone or gold...and even after years and a few price increases the value does not increase much if at all on the secondary market. As far as the Omega service comment, that is a bit of a pot kettle issue Georges as if anything Rolex is notorious for much the same if not worse, I cannot even count the number of Red Subs that were ruined by having their red dials replaced with modern variants, or the companies policy to replace all parts they deem worn with new and won't return the old to the owners....at least Omega bienne will give owners their old parts back.

9)It depends who you are dealing with. I know an independant Rolex watchmaker who was working at Rolex before. But Rolex USA is Rolex USA so don't mix it with Rolex Europe please. It is known that Rolex service centers in Dallas or in New York have done crappy jobs.

I try to deal in broad terms Georges, so while you know someone the chances that others do not, whereas Factory service is a benchark that can easily be weighed and measured.But yes, Rolex NY has done some awful jobs as has Omega US.

10)Personnally if I had to buy a Rolex (wether it is a modern or vintage), I would buy a used one at my watchmaker, it will cost me less and he is a certified Rolex watchmaker so I don't have to worry. For me Omega is not what it used to be, there is too much marketing hype in today's Omega strategy. I just hope taht the firm will return to what it used to be, a manufacture.

Used is always the way to go if you are ok with used, personally I only buy new as I am not one for vintage or used thus I deal in new examples. Just as you don't like the modern Omega I dislike the modern Rolex, for me there is too great a difference in the product which they sell, the market to which they cater, and their pricing policy from that which made them great....they sell status items to status conscious individuals and from my experience care nothing of their enthusiasts or small time buyers, they don't even care for those who buy many of their pieces...at least Omega acknowledges and accepts their enthusiasts.