zOwie Omega Discussion Forum

1)But as usual you are dealing in the PAST
: Georges, the fact is that since acquisition
: by the SMH the quality of the ETA movements
: in their higher tier brands, namely Omega,
: Hamilton, and Longines have gone up greatly
: from that of the ETA movements of the past.
: Also I love it when you mention something
: made in the millions with nothing
: exceptional in terms of quality and finish
: as those two terms seem to exemplify Rolex,
: their movement finish is somewhat laughable
: as is from my experience their finish work
: on the watches themselves. IMHO the 2892-A2
: is more than simply "good" when
: one considers what pieces it finds itself in
: from high grade Omega's to Ulysee Nardin and
: also many top quality IWC pieces, not to
: menton Cartier and others, would you suggest
: that the quality of those brands is somewhat
: suspect given that they also choose the 2892
: for their base?

2)I have said it time and time again, the real
: winning point with the 2500 isn't so much
: the co axial but rather the balance, and
: regardless of manufactuer the
: "fact" is that every 2500 that has
: been examined has been a much better
: finished movement with tighter quality
: control than any Rolex modern movement I
: have seen or read about. Plus their
: performance is commented on daily here and
: elsewhere with many owners being very happy
: with the performance of their watches.

3)For Rolex I am still under the impression that
: they have a few suppliers for dials as well
: as other components which is why with dials
: there is often variation in the printing of
: the text. As for the Seiko comment I stand
: by that, Grand Seiko is an awesome line of
: watches with finish work that far surpasses
: both Rolex and Omega, but they come at a
: price that is indicitive of that level of
: workmanship, still a bargain when compared
: to Rolex but Omega IMHO is still a better
: deal as on average their street prices are
: less.

4)So you use one singular example of a modern
: pen as your baseline for their quality, I
: have owned upwards of ten modern montblanc
: pens Georges as well as more than a few
: other brands, including Pelikan, Waterman,
: Cross, and Namiki to name a few. The
: Montblancs have all left me wanting, with
: the fountains all writing exceptionally poor
: when compared to any of the aforementioned
: pens/brands...their build quality is a joke
: in terms of construction and their writing
: performance is average. I would be hard
: pressed to consider their standard
: Meistersuck line as "top quality",
: rather just like Rolex they are overpriced
: and over hyped. The only reason that two
: remain in my collection is because they were
: gifts from my wife and thus I
: "love" them. I would easily rather
: any of those italian brands over that of
: Montblanc in terms of build and performance
: not to mention price and value, also I fail
: to see why when then brand came onto the
: market is of importance, it is again
: indicitave with your obsession of
: intangibles and the past, my concern is what
: I get here and now not what a company did
: that was great a hundred or so years ago.
: Also I have yet to meet any collector that
: regards the current 149 as one of the best
: fountains ever produced, vintage is
: considered good if not great, but hardly one
: of the best. It is too bad Frank Dubiel has
: passed on as he always had some choice
: things to say about modern Montblanc. What
: is truly funny is Montblanc's efforts to
: distance their image from the pens and focus
: on silly accessories like wallets,
: cufflinks, watches, and other status
: items...their limited editions are the only
: nice pens they make however they come at a
: very steep price.

5)This is one of the funniest things I have to
: read yet, so using your logic the same can
: be said again of Rolex who simply bought
: their technology from Aegler Gruen and only
: as of recently decided to start making their
: own movement with the 4130, instead they
: leeched off of Zenith or continued to revise
: an age old design. I would be hard pressed
: to say that the companies like IWC, UN,
: Cartier and others couldn't produce their
: own movement as all of them have the
: technical prowess and resources to do so,
: rather they saw the ETA 2892 as being a very
: fine movement and would fit their bill just
: well. And last I checked the Co Axial 2500s
: have been out and about a little longer than
: two years. My comment on the FSB was that
: the design is so similar to that of the
: Rolex 3035 that if it worked well for one it
: is bound to work for the other successfully.

6)Been there and done that and even he has said
: that the number of reports was rather small
: and have since dried up, so why complain
: about something that is now a non issue?,
: probabily a bad batch or some small mistake
: that has since been corrected

7)There were problems with the 4130 when first
: released, the difference was that due to
: supply and demand only a few made it onto
: the market and were dealt with quickly. Not
: saying this is an excuse for Omega but a
: very different situation. I would hardly
: call the daytona flawless quality as I have
: read more than a few problem reports, and
: seeing the one new Daytona with a dial
: arabic printed upside down was priceless,
: now there is quality control for you

8)Like I said, decades to recoup your costs
: Georges, and the chances of that market
: duplicating itself or continuing are slim to
: nil Georges given the market saturation the
: brand now has....back then Rolex was popular
: but not so much as they are today. Also
: check any of the sales corners and look at
: "recent" offerings of divers and
: especially GMTs and tell me they don't lose
: value, I have been watching the market for
: the past six years as I have sold a few and
: am looking to sell my last and have found
: that on average a newly bought sport piece
: if sold will lose at least a thousand US if
: in stainless, much more if two tone or
: gold...and even after years and a few price
: increases the value does not increase much
: if at all on the secondary market. As far as
: the Omega service comment, that is a bit of
: a pot kettle issue Georges as if anything
: Rolex is notorious for much the same if not
: worse, I cannot even count the number of Red
: Subs that were ruined by having their red
: dials replaced with modern variants, or the
: companies policy to replace all parts they
: deem worn with new and won't return the old
: to the owners....at least Omega bienne will
: give owners their old parts back.

9)I try to deal in broad terms Georges, so while
: you know someone the chances that others do
: not, whereas Factory service is a benchark
: that can easily be weighed and measured.But
: yes, Rolex NY has done some awful jobs as
: has Omega US.

10)Used is always the way to go if you are ok
: with used, personally I only buy new as I am
: not one for vintage or used thus I deal in
: new examples. Just as you don't like the
: modern Omega I dislike the modern Rolex, for
: me there is too great a difference in the
: product which they sell, the market to which
: they cater, and their pricing policy from
: that which made them great....they sell
: status items to status conscious individuals
: and from my experience care nothing of their
: enthusiasts or small time buyers, they don't
: even care for those who buy many of their
: pieces...at least Omega acknowledges and
: accepts their enthusiasts.

1)Is eta considered as a high grade ebauche/movement manufacturer today? No it isn't and it is just average quality ebauche/movement manufacturer so stop trying to pass eta for something exceptional when it is not. Please explain me how the eta 2892-a2 went up in quality with concrete facts. Longines were truely making exceptional chrono as well as handwound and self winding movements before the 80's. Now what you find in longines or hamilton is a basic decorated 2892-2 or 2824-2 with no improvements and you say that thanks the use of a standard very common movement those firms have gone better? They probably have sold more watches but their reputation isn't the same as it used to be.
IWC makes nice inhouse modified 2892-2 eta but I clearly prefer their inhouse movements like the calibre 5000 and 80110, they use the samuel pelaton winding system and are far better quality than the 2892-2. Ulysse Nardin makes nice watches but I don't se emyself paying over 4000 let alone 5000$ for a modified eta 2892-2 movement. Cartier was never reaching the same position than Ulysse Nardin let alone IWC. A brand like Cartier is not a brand that has played an important role in the developpment of watchmaking. It is just a fashion brand.

2)where did you read that? Watch time magazine? And you believe all what the press says? I don't.Prove me please with concrete facts that Omega quality control is tighter than Rolex quality control.I can only comment of the performance of the watch after I have worn it during many many years not a month or two.

3)See I was right you consider a Grand Seiko as better than Omega and Rolex. The grand seiko is very inspired of the Rolex but to be honest I will rather have a Rolex over a grand seiko because a grand seiko is not on par with Rolex in terms of quality and accuracy. Your impression abour Rolex dials is completely wrong

4)My uncle owns over 30 Montblanc pens and over a dozen of duofolds. The fact that you only got problems doesn't mean that other had problems with them. You are the only person saying that a Montblanc writes poorly. Wonder if you know that Montblanc is german and that german products are always of far better quality than italian products not only when it comes to pens but watches and cars as well.The other italian pen brands are very expensive because they are mainly built with some rare materials and have also nice aesthetics but aesthetics alone are not a warrant of a better product or craftsmanship. All you do matthew is to rely on the press critics. I know many happy Montblanc owners (in USA, in England and in France) and even in luxury pen shops the brands you see the most are montblanc, parker, pelikan, waterman, shaeffer, caran dache, dunhill, namiki, sailor but you very rarely see the italian brands.

5)Rolex didn't leech off zenith, zenith sold them the ebauche and Rolex modified it for maximum reliability and ease of maintenance. Then in the mid 90's Rolex decided to study and design its own chrono movement something it achieved brilliantly.The eta2892-a2 was cheap to buy that is why UN and cartier baught it. IWC is already developping it inhouse movements with the cal 5000 found in the big pilot and portuguese perpetual calendar and 80110 found in the Ingenieur. The eta 2892-a2 is good but nothing exceptional.

6)Non issue? Never say never. The fact that it hasn't happened in a while doesn't tell you that it can't happen again. See what was said with the 33xx on which failure were said to be resolved, fact is that they were not.

7)There are far more problems with the 33xx that Daytos assembled with an upside down dial.

8)I know about Rolex bad service on vintages

9)I know that also

10)I don't buy an item product for the sake of its status but because it is a product of quality and because the brand I buy or support has a long term proven in experience in its field.