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Counterfeit Watchers Discussion Forum

A forum for identifying and avoiding wholly or partially non-authentic wristwatches -- including counterfeit, replica, Frankenwatches and other fake or bastardized pieces. Our objective here is to DISCOURAGE the sales and purchase of counterfeit wristwatch and jewelry products. It is also for helping people identify watches that are mostly authentic, but have been: altered for personal customization, repaired with inappropriate parts or modified to be passed off as more valuable pieces.

Including a photo of the piece you are talking about ALWAYS helps! You can learn how to post a photo here: How To Include Photos In Your Postings. 'For sale' postings, commercial solicitation and ads are not allowed. Links to Internet auctions are acceptable only if their purpose is to question the authenticity of a product or provide new clues for identifying counterfeit products. Links that appear to be 'shills' promoting the sale of counterfeit products will be deleted. Links to websites of sellers of counterfeit items are not permitted -- we know they are out there and do not need to be encouraging them by sending traffic to their sites. Privacy, additional policies and administrivia are covered in the Terms of Use.

Re: Counterfeit using original Omega parts?

: Has there been any experiences reported of true
: vintage Omega movements being placed inside
: fake casings

Not that I've heard of. But I have seen situations where non-OMEGA movements had OMEGA markings added to them by etching or stickers to look like OMEGA movements.

: Also, if someone "refinishes" an
: Omega dial to something different (like
: adding cross-hairs that weren't there
: before) and does not report this
: modification, could this be considered
: fraud?


Fraud is "intentional deception resulting in injury to another person." Certainly, you can see the dial of any watch before you purchase it. So unless the seller claims the watch to be 100% original, there is no deception.

Fraud involves damages. So unless you are asked to pay a premium price for something claimed to be 100% original, then what damages has the seller done to you? If the seller didn't lie, any injury to the buyer would be from the buyer's own inadequate research and ill-informed choices. Failure to ask questions of the seller and seek independent sources of information before you buy would be your fault, not the seller's.

And particularly in an auction environment, you set the price based on what you choose to offer. So you certainly cannot claim you were overcharged if you set the maximum price you choose to pay.

Plus, refinishing of dials was a common practice in the 1960s and in modern restoration of cosmetically deficient watches. So it is quite possible for a seller to not know that the watch was refinished in a non-original manner prior to their ownership of the watch. But even if they did intentionally repaint the dial, where is the falsehood in that--again, unless the watch is claimed to be 100% original?

In this, used watches are like used cars--you have to evaluate whether the maintenance, repair, restoration and modifications done to the specific piece are suitable to your needs and desires. There are no laws that require a seller to know of or disclosure any variations from factory original on vintage/used items for sale. Unless specified otherwise, used items are considered to be sold as-is.

Ultimately, a buyer can't dump the responsibility of protecting himself from his own ignorance and folly onto anyone else. Examine closely, ask questions of the seller, ask questions of peers and experts, then make as informed a decision as you can and accept the consequences of any residual risk in your choice.

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