zOwie Omega Discussion Forum

"Luminova Bleed" and the "dipped second hand" (the red accents on my GMT dial are my favorite features) notwithstanding, the design of the Bond-era SMP dial is borrowed directly from the Rolex catalog! I'm still not seeing a difference in quality to justify a $1795 price tag on the SMP, versus $3500 for the Submariner and $4500 for the Seadweller (with the Helium release valve... don't forget that).

---

I'll say it again... most of what is being said pertains to style; Point for point, material for material, and feature for feature (feel free to disregard dollar for dollar), the SMP keeps pace with the Submariner, and is close on the heels of the Seadweller. It's just THAT class of watch. Like I said, 'it runs with the likes of Rolex, and is in a different class than Tag.' As I will demonstrate:

: Metal fealt coarse and cheap, almost like that
: of my Tag 1500 which I recelty Sold for
: almost what I paid (good luck doing that
: with a Used SMP).

-- Not sure what you mean by coarse and cheap (I agree about the Tag, actually, but Omegas, at least mine, are finished quite differently from Tags). I can't speculate as to the circumstances that allowed you to sell your Tag for 'almost' what you paid, but I would guess that this experience is not typical. You ask if this can be done with Omega, well, YES; Omegas retain their resale value very well. But any watch purchased at or around it's median market value can easily be resold for the same price in the same market. I see second-hand SMPs sell on eBay for $900-1100 everyday. If I purchase one in that range (which is conceivable, even new), I could sell it for just the same. I actually purchased a pristine second-hand SMP in a pawn shop for $762, with all papers, etc (robbed him blind). I could have sold it immediately (perhaps on eBay) at a profit, but it would be silly for me to say that all Omegas appreciate in value, based only on my single, unusual experience. You seem to like Rolex so very much, but as a percentage of median RETAIL price, the resale value of a steel Rolex is roughly the same as Omega, if not a little worse.

: The Dial on any SMP is less than to be desired,
: especially with the luminova bleed (under a
: loupe) and the non boardered markers..not to
: mention the second hand dipped in red paint
: at the tip, and the silly friction pins used
: in the bracelet.

-- Markers, dial, red hands, whatever. You're speaking mostly about personal style preference. I could write pages on how I prefer the bevels and contrasts on the Omega cases, but will let it suffice just to say that you say 'To-may-to' and I say 'To-mah-to'. Don't know why you're down on friction pins, but Rolex certainly shouldn't throw stones at Omega where bracelets are concerned (an adage about glass houses springs to mind).

: The only model that I would even remotely
: consider in the Seamaster line would either
: be vintage or the new non AC SMP, but its
: retail price rivals that of a few Rolexes,

-- I don't know exactly what you mean by 'non AC', possibly 'non automatic chronometer'? I'm wondering what you mean, here. The SMP in styled right after the Submariner! The only differences I see are blue face vs. black (Omega makes a black face version, too), the indices on the dial are virtually identical to the Sub, the hands are differently designed, there are smoother scallops on the bezel, vice the many small 'teeth' of the Sub's bezel, and the SMP has a fancier bracelet and clasp, while the Sub has the cyclops magnifier; All things considered, these are two VERY similar watches. But, regardless of where you shop, there is no 'rivalry' where price is concerned: MSRP on a Sub is in the neighborhood of $3500+, Seadweller around $4500+. To get an Omega anywhere near that price range, you need to add solid gold centerlinks or a solid titanium case/bracelet, or add a chronograph complications.

: only with heavy discounts is it worth it,
: and then the suck resale on it should you
: decide to sell (as many seem to do with the
: SMP after owning it for a few months, least
: on the SC they go quite regularly). And it
: is still plagued by those awful friction
: pins which connect the removeable links, how
: cheap can you get???

-- Once again, resale value... addressed; An SMP purchased 'with a HEAVY discount' can be sold for exactly what was paid. How many have you seen for sale? How large a percentage is that of all SMPs purchased new? How does that figure compare with other manufacturers? We just don't know. I've seen more Rolex watches in pawn shops (or on eBay) than any other brand; Does that mean that they are disliked by their owners, or just that they are a commodity, like any other, that is bought and traded? I believe the latter is true. Such evidence is anecdotal. And what on earth do you have against spring pins?

: Don't get me wrong, I like alot of Omega's
: products, but to make the SMP out to be more
: than what it is, a bargain high end divers
: watch is almost silly, Omega has cut too
: many corners in regards to fine finishing
: with that watch imho, I can only hope they
: improve upon it, but seeing as how they
: change their watches every two years or so
: with the exception of the Speedmaster I
: would not be surprised if they did continue
: to modify the line.

-- What corners were cut? Please tell me. I'd like to know. Please tell me what QUANTIFIABLE aspects of the SMP are inferior to the same QUANTIFIABLE aspects of the Sub. Regardless of price. I can sure provide a list of QUANTIFIABLE aspects where the Sub loses:
Solid-End-Link Construction in the Bracelet
Sturdier Bracelet Closure
Helium Escape valve (present)
These are serious arguments, which make "Luminova Bleed" and "Dipped Hands" seem like very diminutive concerns. We can debate preferences in finish and style until the cows come home, but that won't change the fact that the SMP and the Sub BOTH passed the SAME chronometer tests, and keep time exactly the same... within +6/-4 seconds per day.

: Do yourself a favor and actually go into a
: dealer that has all three models which you
: are looking at or at least trying to
: compare...personally the Rolex in Fit and
: finish was worlds above that in comparison
: to the SMP I was looking at, so much so that
: I didn't even give it a second thought, the
: only thing that bothered me was the money,
: but once I felt and saw the difference in
: quality between the Rolex and the SMP there
: was no question which was better...IMHO.

-- Once again: Personal preference and stylistic concerns. I prefer the SMP styling to the other two (and Breitling, for that matter). And I do handle all of them. I handle the watches wherever I go, from Ben Bridge Jewelers to Wal-Mart. The elements of quality are fairly empirical, and I can't see how there is so much contention over this matter: Weight, Materials, Accuracy, Value-added Features, Bracelets, Detail, etc. To say that Omega lags behind Rolex in any of these areas is simply untrue: They weigh the same, the materials are comparable (same saphire, different steel... Rolex happens to go to immense expense to squeeze an extra, imperceptable bit of improvement for its steel), the accuracy is the same (same COSC tests), The features are similar (Omega actually has the Helium valve on theirs, while Rolex's helium valve is exclusive to the much more expensive Seadweller), Omega's bracelets are simply better (Rolex's Oyster clasp design is truly in need of an update, and they don't have SEL design yet), both boast great detail and refinements (empirically), but which refinements that one prefers is a matter of personal taste.

: However if you are looking for a
: "tool" or a "beater"
: high end watch, the Omega might be the
: better bet due to its pricepoint, and
: design...personally I was looking for
: something which was more of a high
: end/luxury piece, almost like jewelery but
: not quite which is something I feel the
: Rolex excelled at over the omega due to the
: excellent dial and casework, not to mention
: the polishing of the case, which almost
: looked like white gold, something the Omega
: was not even close to IMHO...if I wanted a
: beater I would have worn my G-shock....

-- If you're looking for jewelry, I would think that you'd prefer the highly-polished bevels on the SMP case and bezel, and the fancier bracelet. It seems to me that the feature that you wanted most was the little crown on the dial.