Very unhappy with first purchase from forum Posted By: graham [Date: 10/12/05 10:35 GMT]

I purchased an Autavia from one of the most prolific and critical members of this forum who had recently criticised one of my Ebay purchases and emailed me that he had a "Perfect authentic condition" version of the same model.

I asked for more details and was told the watch had been recently serviced so at 1000 Euros seemed expensive, but fully serviced and from a genuine source seemed ok.

Unfortunately the watch turned out to be neither perfect not authentic so I complained and reluctantly accepted 50 Euros back after much haggling. The alternative being a refund less 50 euros "restocking fee", shipping both ways and pay pal fees. So I would have been around 150 Euros down on a misdescribed watch!!!!!!!! I've now found out, after taking the watch to a BHI watcmaker (it was losing time) that it shows no signs of ever being serviced. The movement is completely dry. Also the movement has been removed at some time but badly refitted with bent clamps and burred screws. I'm no expert on vintage watches. This was only my second purchase so I went by this sellers description. The seller is now dodging the service issue saying it was checked over to make sure it was working. Surely this can't be described as a service!Didn't they notice the watch needed oiling!

It certainly seems that the goal posts are shifting with this seller.

Any help from the forum would be greatly appreciated as I feel I did not get a fair deal.

I'm not sure how or if I will be able to help. But I will share a few thoughts...

A couple of things to be learned here (really for everyone)...

1 It's really important to get pictures of the item being sold including pictures of the movement and scrutinize them before committing to a deal. Even if it's with trusted people and especially with people you consider friends. Back in the 1980's I had a group of friends, Mike the eldest, sold his old 1970's model Dodge Dart to another of my friends, Brad G. who drove it for a year and then sold it to another friend Brad Y, who drove it until it finally succumbed to the inevitable (I mean it was a DODGE DART for crying out loud!). Everyone got their usage out of the car, no one got "screwed" and all of them, while scattered to the four winds, remain friends. That's probably the exception. Typically you don't want to sell a car to a friend, you wish to keep as a friend.

2 It's also a good idea for both parties to establish terms of sale prior to committing to the transaction. A bit of attention to details early on can save a lot of strife later.

3 It's a really good idea to be upfront with full-disclosure about a product you are selling for it may well come back to haunt you later on.

4 It's also a very good idea to take meticulous notes that may prove useful should any transaction "go south"...

For what it's worth, I'm not taking sides and have no idea what the level and nature of the transaction was, as I'm not a party to it.

I believe Ralf has provided some very good advice (as always), K too has some good advice especially about the tone of the transaction. While I agree with Jeff in general about not posting names in the forum as we don't want to have a huge flame/"he said-she said" brouhaha, I think there is a far better reason to not name names at this point.

At this point, the seller in question knows that there is a significant possibility that you'll "out" him in the forum. I would suspect this is something that s/he would likely wish to avoid. The moment you "name names" you lose any leverage you have to get a more favorable settlement from him and antagonize him into replying in kind to you. Unless this seller doesn't care about his reputation, s/he has a strong incentive to set things right now, before the situation gets any worse. Naming names removes from play your strongest card (to use a Poker term)...

At this point it probably goes without saying that it's likely in both parties best interests to settle this fairly & quickly and move on.

I'd recommend that each party take every effort to resolve this situation themselves. We, meaning Jeff and I but likely every user of this forum, wish this forum to continue to have the same atmosphere it has had since it's birth. -> Jeff and I will take every effort to assure that that will happen, even if not everyone else is satisfied with how that is done.

Fair enough?