chuck: you put much effort into this answer: and I want to thank you....

I also agree you can be MUCG faster with manual bidding...in former times I had a special watch, which counts such accurate and matchs 100% with the ebay time: you can bid 2 seconds in advance...no problem manually, but with snipes, it will not work!

I ONLY use it, because all the items I like are far away and this maschine is doing it 24/7 for me...its very convenient....and be informed my win/dont won rate is still 50/50 ...so snipers dont have an advantage, besides in convenience: of course this is my personal opinion!

Alex

: Users of sniping tools suck Posted By: Thomas
: Date: 6/3/05 00:08 GMT Everyone is
: entitled to their own opinion, but by your
: own statements you are guilty of what what
: you accuse others of...

: In Response To: So Was It Automated Snipe or
: LIVE ? ? ? (jeff stein)

: It's against the ebay rules, you know.... .
: Interestingly enough, I did a search of
: the eBay user agreement for the words:
: "Snipe", "bidding",
: "program" and "service"
: and found no passage within the eBay user
: agreement that would support your
: statement above. In fact I found no instance
: of the word "Snipe" at all, and
: the only instances of "bidding",
: "program" and "service"
: my browser found had nothing to do with
: Sniping.

: Noone can compete with a sniping program
: manually, no matter how fast your
: connection. I disagree...

: A sniping program or service only works if the
: bid which they are placing is higher than
: everyone elses bid. If you place a bid 15
: seconds before the end of the auction, it's
: recognized/processed by eBay and it's higher
: than everyone elses bid by one bid
: increment, it will win no matter what method
: was used to place the bid:
: program/service/manually.

: I and many other people here and elsewhere have
: successfully won auctions against sniping
: programs and services via manual bids. It
: only requires the money to place the winning
: bid and the willingness to commit to pay for
: the item should your bid be the winning one.

: Sniping Is no more than waiting until the last
: minute to place a bid or in Poker parlance
: "Lay one's card's on the table".
: There is nothing immoral, unethical, illegal
: or wrong about keeping one's
: cards/intentions close to one's vest until
: the crucial moment of an auction. There is
: nothing untoward in waiting until most of
: the fireworks at an auction has occured
: before placing your first bid ($300 new
: bidder!)...

: Here is the schtick with bidding manually. It
: can be just as effective as snipping, as
: long as: eBay is operating properly,
: Your connection to the internet is working
: properly. If your DSL/Cable connection
: goes down, or your power fails or your modem
: connection is too slow to react you could be
: disappointed that your high bid would have
: won if you had been able to post it. That's
: one of the pitfalls of last minute bidding.
: If there is a technology glitch somewhere
: along the line you could be burned.
: Your Brower/bidding program/Operating
: System/etc. is operating properly.

: Bidding manually at or near the last moment of
: an auction can minimize the visability of
: your interest in an item and make it more
: difficult for competitors to react to your
: bid. Because, if you bid $500 more than the
: current high bid with 5 minutes left to go,
: folks would still have 4 minutes 50 seconds
: plus to pick away at it. If you bid $500
: more than the the current high bid with 10
: seconds left to go (no matter manually,
: program or service) competitors would have
: less than 10 seconds to react/pick away at
: it. As always having the highest bid wins as
: long as it's one bid increment above all the
: other bidders before the auction ends.

: But, there are some rubs about bidding at the
: last minute too: technology glitches:
: power/phone/DSL/Cable/Sniping Service outage
: at the critical moment of an auction. if
: you are using a bidding program it could
: unexpectedly quit/crash/fail to place the
: bid/etc. with bidding manually at the last
: minute, not only are you limited others
: ability to react to your bids, you're
: limiting your time to react to theirs...
: with a bidding program, you are adding yet
: one more piece of technology that can
: possibly fail, you have to make sure your
: system's clock is syncronized with the real
: time, that the program is up to date (eBay
: changes stuff ALL the TIME), and that you
: know how to operate it properly. with a
: bidding service, your bids will only be as
: reliable and as timely as the service you
: choose, you have to know how to place bids
: accurately via their site, most of them are
: pay services (usually 1% of winning bids),
: and there is a dead period (usually 5
: minutes) before the end of an auction that
: you can't change your bid... In other words
: if with 2 minutes left to go you decide
: against placing a bid, you can't rescind it
: with a bidding service, you have to ride it
: out. Not only can your technology fail you,
: but there are lots of other snipers out
: there, sometimes you bag your quary,
: sometimes even talented snipers get
: outsniped.

: I know a number of people who've been burned by
: each bid placing method:
: manual/program/service, and for important
: items they will set up bids at the same
: amount via multiple methods
: (manual/program/bidding service/etc.) to
: insure at least one of the bids does get
: placed properly in case of a glitch. There
: is nothing wrong with that either.

: That said, I installed such an application as
: well, There is nothing like condemning
: others for practices you participate in...

: to be able to keep up with the cheaters.
: Again... as I've pointed out above... there
: is nothing within the eBay User Agreement
: that mentions Snipe or Sniping, Bidding
: programs or Bidding services. If it's not
: mentioned in the User Agreement it is not
: prohibited by the User Agreement. You can
: feel about that any way you wish to, but if
: it's not against the User Agreement it isn't
: cheating.

: Funny thing is, there is so much talk here
: about fake watches, but software which
: manipulates ebay auctions - and has made the
: whole bidding process a joke - is considered
: appropriate ? How do you figure?

: There are programs and services out there that
: help sellers package and "produce"
: their eBay listings so to present their
: products in the best possible light in order
: to generate the most number of hits on the
: page, interest among bidders and hence
: higher final bids. Is that manipulation of
: eBay auctions? Is that inappropriate? Should
: they be banned?

: Sauce for the goose T.

: The seller's goal: the seller's goal is to
: maximize the amount of the winning bid.

: The buyer's goal (typically) is to either:
: minimize the cost of the item, maximize his
: chances of winning the item at a price that
: the buyer is willing to pay, maximize his
: chances of winning the item at all costs, a
: combination of one or more of the above.

: Sniping on eBay is a strategy of waiting until
: the last moment in an effort to minimize the
: ending bid of an item and maximize one's
: chances of winning the item. Standard eBay
: auctions are set up so that they have a
: fixed ending point. If one has a problem
: with fixed ending point auctions one should
: consider only bidding on Dutch Auctions on
: eBay or only using other auction sites which
: have a policy of allowing bidding to
: continue after the stated end of the
: auctions for X number of minutes after the
: last bid...

: For those who haven't tried seen one of these
: floating end point auctions... If the stated
: end of an auction is noon, and three people
: place bids at 10 seconds to noon, those bids
: are registered, the high bid posted and the
: end of the auction is extended for (usually)
: 5 more minutes to allow further bidding, if
: no one bids within 5 minutes the auction
: ends, if someone does, the end is reset for
: 5 minutes after that bid, and so on. It's
: more like an "in-person/live"
: auction. eBay auctions aren't like that. If
: you don't like the eBay format, try another
: auction site that has a different format. I
: believe Yahoo Auctions are set with a
: "floating" end point based on a 5
: minute "Going, Going, Gone..."
: type ending format.

: The one sure way to win any standard
: "fixed endpoint" eBay auction is
: to place a bid at least one bid increment
: above everyone else that is registered by
: eBay before the close of the auction. For
: that way wins every time. All other
: strategies will succeed based upon the
: knowledge/skill of the bidder's and their
: willingness to bid higher than all the
: others.

: Hilarious at best... So's namecalling for
: things you do too. But that's just the way
: it looks from here.

: The U.S. Marines have a saying: “Improvise,
: Adapt, Overcome” . I have an addition to
: that: ‘Or don't and you won't’...

: The rules are the same for everyone... Bid as
: you see fit, or don't. The decision is
: yours.

: Good Hunting!

: -- Chuck

:

:

:

: Chuck Maddox

: Chronographs, like most finer things
: in life, only improve with time...
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: http://www.xnet.com/~cmaddox/cm3articles.html
: , Watch Links Page :
: http://www.xnet.com/~cmaddox/watch.html ,
: Watch Blog :
: http://chuckmaddoxwatch.blogspot.com/ .

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