: Well of course. Who other than a fraud artist
: thinks that fraud is a good thing??

well we agree on one thing for sure.:)

: Never be as high quality? Yes I agree to an
: extent. The Fake Patek I have has, as I have
: said before a 17 jewel Eta movement. The
: real one has a 30 jewel movement with the
: Geneva Seal and is a work of art. No fake
: would ever have something so wonderful
: powering it. On the other hand there are
: many legitamite/real watchs that use the
: movement in my fake and no one complains.
: It's a pretty good movement IMHO. In any
: watch.
yes, eta makes fine quality movements and in legitimate watches they are good, imho also. the point is that in a fake patek they are not of equal quality and go down the line with that. a fake is never as good as the original it copies.

: In terms of beauty. I also agree. A fake will
: never have the same je ne sais quoi, aura,
: feel, brilliance? that a real one has. But
: now, let me ask you a question. In your
: house, do you only have original art? Do you
: have even ONE print? How come any posters
: you have arn't the actual original photo? I
: have a matisse in my bathroom. It looks
: really nice there. I quite like it in fact.
: It suits the room. Now, is my $100 print as
: nice as the $50 million dollar original? Of
: corse not. But it still suits the room, and
: I really like the painting (and I've been
: told not to buy any more $50 million dollar
: paintings, we just don't have the wall space
: anymore...). So why wouldn't you like it (if
: you are into Matisse)? It's done by one of
: the worlds best painters ever. It is a
: classic. But now, should I take down that
: work of art -print that it is- and put up an
: original piece from someone that could never
: come close to the beauty of this
: "fake" Because the print, it IS a
: copy, and doesn't even come close to being
: as jaw-droppingly stunning as the original
: (but it's still pretty). Am I wrong to have
: it on the wall?
there are two basic kinds of prints. those licensed from the museums and owners of the originals to help raise funds to protect the originals and the structures their housed in, and those that some pirates print without permission to make a quick buck. there is a big difference i hope you can see it? if tag heuer issued out license agrrements to a chinese counterfeit watchmaker to produce watches with the tag heuer name, this would be okay. i wouldn't like it, but it would be LEGAL. they would never do this, and this arguement about art is completely irrelevant to watch discussions, imho.

: I belive I said "realizing...that you are
: hurting
: the watch industry as a whole" I realize
: that having a fake is contributing to
: copyright infringment. So is possesing
: online, shared music, and quite frankly
: buying many "no-name" products
: made in China (esp. computer parts). But at
: the same time, be a little pragmatic about
: it. Very few of the people that buy a fake
: Patek Phillipe would ever buy a real one.
: Patek is not losing sales from fakes. Now I
: agree, many other brands might, Tag Heuer
: being a prime example.
i happen to beleive that sharing online music is not a good thing either. while i feel, the record companies, the artists and everyone in between are a bit greedy i would never participate in stealing of any form. that's just me, i'm a rule follower by nature as i believe in civilization, and that takes rules and people following them to make it work.

you also backed up my point on people who buy fakes caring mainly about the name. your right someone who purchases a patek fake would never buy one most likley. you have to ask yourself why not just buy a legitimate brand that has an equal look to it...why? because people want that patek name printed on the face. this is not an attack on you, it's just a discussion. i used the patek because it is a reference from your arguements.:) we argee on the tag heuer fakes so at least we are not that far apart.:)

: From my above post. "And yes when anyone
: asks me if the watch is a fake I happily say
: yes it is."
: Please don't try to paint everyone with the
: same brush. Some people have a fake because
: they think it makes people think they're
: rich. Some people have a fake becasue it
: goes better with their blue suit and their
: tan suit than any of their Heuers or
: IWC's...
sorry , i should apologize as that part of my ending general statement was not aimed at you. it was a general feel i have towards fake wearers. you took it personal and i could see why, but it was just a misunderstanding. having said that...

i will paint all fake wearers with the same brush. just like your entitled to your opinions, i'm entitled to mine. that's what makes the country i live in so great. we don't have to agree on this. i've made my point and you've made yours let's just leave it at that.:)

: Now lastly, are the re-addition
: "Heuers" fakes? They are designed
: to look like another, more expensive, watch.
: They have (IMHO) inferior movements to the
: original. Why would you buy a new Monaco or
: Carrera TAG when you can buy a real one? How
: many people pass off (or attempt to) these
: new watches as the real originals? Or are
: they not fakes because Hennesy's/LV owns the
: designs?

no the re-editions are not fakes. lvmh owns all the designs past and present and they paid alot of cash for that right. while some hardliners may not like it, lvmh has the right to do what they like within the terms of the agreement of the purchase of tag heuer. which the re-editions follow those guidelines or they would not have reissued them.

i also don't care for some of the movements that tag heuer is using in the reissues, but the old movements are long gone mostly and it is lvmh's company, so they can do what they like. we have the right to not purchase them if we don't like what they are doing, but by no means can you argue that these watches could even border on being a fake.

well it was an interesting discussion as i like these kinds of talks back and forth. take care and get rid of the patek fake, after all you have a daytona!:)

j.h.