I fully agree with you, leave everyone's moral standards to themselves...
:

: Before I start on the subject on reporting
: fakes let me say that I am a Tag Heuer
: Owner. I bought a 2000 series chronometer.
: That way people that participate in this
: forum dont become outraged on the subjects I
: might bring up for discussions. In the
: spirit of full disclosure you've also said
: that you've been "Very happy with
: fake Kirium" and have purchased a
: number of what you call "quality
: replicas" in the past.

: I am an official owner. TAG-Heuer might
: choose to call you an accessory after the
: fact.

: Chuck recently wrote about reporting fakes
: being sold on ebay to ebay and having them
: removed. Is this really what these forums
: are for? This forum, yes. That's one of
: the things we do here.

: To inform people on how they can be tattle
: tails? Personally I hate to hear/see
: people get taken by these crooks.

: You apparently have a different attitude.

: What benefit is for anyone to go and report
: this to ebay. What harm is it "
: for anyone to go and report this to ebay.
: "? None except for the people acting
: unlawfully.

: Is it to keep Tag Heuer from going out of
: business? I doubt it. You'd be right,
: that's not the reason, care to guess again?

: TH is a major company with millions of
: dollars so I am sure they can be their own
: police, they do not need any help from you
: or me. You are entitled to your
: opinion. Fraud bothers me. It should bother
: anyone who purchases the products of a firm
: that has to spend their money defending it's
: copyright, patents, and rights policing
: people trying to defraud people with
: counterfeit products. Which drives prices up
: on their new watches, parts, service, serves
: to increase the values of vintage watches
: (because the street price of a new Autavia
: will have an effect on vintage values). It
: also increases the chance that some other
: scam artist will cram an inexpensive
: tri-compax 7750 movement sans rotor into a
: vintage Monaco and get $3,000 for a
: put-together piece of home engineering.

: And I would be willing to bet they are not
: paying you or giving you a complimentary
: watch for doing so. So why bother.
: Because the costs of investigation of
: counterfeits, the prosecution of people
: making, wholesaling, retailing costs money.
: Money that socks the consumer in higher
: prices at retail, which drives the price of
: vintage and second hand examples higher as
: well.

: I am sure that ebay can police their site as
: well without any help either. You'd have
: a hard time convincing any serious watch
: collector or hobbyist that eBay can police
: their site effectively on their own, or
: these counterfeit's wouldn't be on eBay very
: long. Fact is the eBay efforts are pitiful
: at best. One could likely train a not too
: bright Gorilla to do a better job

: If it is to protect the people who might buy
: a watch there then here is something to
: think about. If you are going to buy a watch
: from someone on ebay then that is the chance
: you take. Ah, so we should kill the
: fakes page, pull all of the pictures and let
: people fend for themselves. I mean why
: bother, it's not our concerned if people buy
: a watch that is listed fraudulently?

: I see no difference between pointing out a fake
: to eBay, and pointing a washed out bridge to
: the police... It's a common courtesy among
: civilized peoples.

: just because someone puts a picture on their
: sell site it does not mean you will get that
: watch. And this means... what
: exactly???

: If you want to get a real Heuer then you
: should buy from a repitable outlet. Ben
: Bridge, Roman times, Bailey Banks Biddle,
: Costco Wholesale......... Considering
: the ability of some of these fakes to mimic
: the real thing, it's a real good idea to
: purchase from an Authorized Dealer if you
: want to get a new watch that is of certain
: provenance.

: Or go to a watch show with dealers so you can
: see the watch you are purchasing. The
: majority of people that buy replicas online
: know what they are buying and if you are not
: sure then dont get it. If people wish
: to purchase a fake Rolex or TAG-Heuer from
: some guy's trench coat on the seedy side of
: Times Square that's there prerogative.

: While I can see the attraction... People can
: pay maybe 10¢ on the dollar for what one
: could find a genuine model from grays or
: even an authorized dealer, and think they
: getting a great deal and fool a lot of
: people who don't know diddles about watches.
: A lot of people are happy to play the role
: of poser.

: It seems that many of the people in this
: forum that get upset about fakes are the
: ones that paid a lot of money and now see
: extremely close looking replicas for a
: fraction of the price. It's interesting
: that you say this when this has been your
: rant all day here.

: You seem to take personal affront when I posted
: a link to a page where people can report
: fakes. The same link was posted in multiple
: forums over at TZ and no one has gotten
: upset, told people to get a life, posted
: insults and knitted a flag for fakes.

: And the strange thing is that most of these
: replicas now are actually quality watches
: which hurts even more in the pocket book.
: You have figures to back up these
: assertions? What figures do you have on
: replicas? How do you define “quality”, how
: do you test it?

: Basically if you are happy with your tag
: heuer then be and leave ebay fakes alone.
: Basically if you're happy with your
: counterfeit TAG-Heuers, bully for you, but
: do not tell others what to think or do. It's
: not your place to tell anyone else how to
: life their life or that they should lower
: their ethical, moral or legal standards to
: match yours.

: If you don't wish to have that kind of
: integrity that's your decision, leave our
: integrity to us, thank you.

: Let the TH police do their own work.. ...
: by all means, lets sit on our hands, let
: people be defrauded, let TAG-Heuer pay more
: money to defend their name, and rights, and
: pay more for new watches, parts for all
: ones, and service...

: For what it's worth, I can think of one good
: reason to buy a fake watch... If you're
: interested in seeing what makes a watch work
: and want to try to take one apart (and
: hopefully) and put it back together again,
: that's a decent reason to buy a fake watch,
: if you succeed you will have a watch you can
: be proud about (hey I was able to take this
: apart and put it back together again and it
: works!) and you aren't risking much money.

: Aside from that, if buying counterfeits and
: furthering their cause what floats your boat
: that is your decision, don't expect me to
: agree with it. I'm not expecting you to like
: my viewpoints, you'll simply have to
: tolerate the dickens out of them.

: -- Chuck

:

: Chuck Maddox

:

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