:"Omega has a slew of Valjoux 7750

: based Speedmasters, both past and present,

: that sport a similar appearance. The lugs of

: the new Carrera:"

good point, but every chrono maker has a slew of 7750's and to be fair, imo, there isn't much left as far as design goes that hasn't been done at one time by someone, for the most part, imo.

Agreed, few watches currently are created in a stylistic vacuum. Even the most radical designs, like Ikepod's work, has it's roots in older Omega and Tissot designs. Other firms borrow from other brands.

: "(yeah, that's the one) at first glance bear a

: certain resemblence to the Speedmaster

: pre-moonwatch case, but in an interesting

: combination of a "Pre-Moon"

: Sans-crown/pusher guard case with plain

: lugs,"

i wouldn't argue that there aren't similarities, as there are, but my arguement would be are there enough to call it a ripoff or even an hommage??

I haven't said they were rip-off's nor homage's either, and I don't believe you are saying I said so. However, I understand how people can feel that and say those things.

: "but on closer inspection the lugs are more in

: line with the classic Carrera 12."

agreed and that's what i see when i look at it, but then again i don't have the knowledge of speedmasters and the vast insight that you do.

I wouldn't know, about your experience, but it certainly seems quite serviceable in my opinion. My knowledge isn't as extensive on Heuer's as I'd like but thankgully Jeff and the rest of you are nursemaiding me quite admirably.

: "The bracelet is clearly emulative of the

: current moonwatch bracelet style too."

another good and valid point. of course, i dare to say that as far as bracelet designs go.....imo, there isn't much left to do really that doesn't copy another previous design to some extent. i will admit that this may be the second biggest mistake in design leading to this "carrera" being called a speedmaster "ripoff". the fixed tachy bezel being the first big mistake. although imho, i just don't see it being that close really to one particular currently offered speedmaster model. once again though i don't have that vast knowledge like you do in that area, so i can only speak on my impressions on what i have seen, etc.

I wouldn't call any of these design elements mistakes personally. But those elements are the source for the particular points relating to those elements by the people who feel strongly it's emulative of the Speedmasters.

And like I said Heuer could have just as easily used a Jubilee or Oyster styled bracelet on this Carrera and a different subset of people would point to those elements. Again, few products are created in a styling, or functionality vacuum these days..

:"No, they don't have exclusivisity

: on the Tachy Bezel, on the other hand lets

: try to list the number of Vintage Heuer's

: with External non-rotatable Tachy Bezel's...

: All of the Autavia's have rotatable bezels,

: A quick look at the Guide to Chronographs

: reveals only the Jackie Ickx Easy Rider

: models. So this bezel is a departure for

: Heuer."

true, but unless omega has the sole rights to using that design in a chrono?? i'd say it's not a huge deal...like so many on other forums have made it out to be. just my opinion.

Nor am I saying it's a big deal, but again, that's where people get the moxie to say those things. This element is common place on Omega's nearly unheard of on Heuers.

: "Personally, I

: would find it flattering if another brand

: came out with a simlarly styled watch. I can

: post other (than Omega and Heuer) brand

: watches that bear a certain resemblence to

: Speedmaster models past and present..."

my use of the word "blasted" was probably not the best term. i should have used "accused by a few" of being a ripoff/hommage of the speedmaster.

I doubt I'm one of the blasters. Nor do I believe you're saying I am. But I understand why the blasters say those things.

agreed, i like some of the speedmasters myself, although i feel like tag has followed omegas lead in their use of the carrera name...much like what omega has done with the speedmaster name. very similar strategies, imho. so i guess this may be the biggest "ripoff" of omega possibly?:)

If it's good it'll be copied, emulated or improved upon by others. Statement of fact. TAG-Heuer is no different than Omega or anyone else.

: "JH, you're not getting off that easy... Post a

: picture of your Zodiac 7734 so that we can

: pass judgement on it for looking a certain

: way! Show us!"

i should clarify the reason i brought this up was simply because so many have associated the fixed tachy bezel with the speedmaster, that they look no further. such is the case here. i myself would never confuse the two, but that fixed tachy bezel seems to be a problem for some when used by anyone else?? anyway, here it is.........

I think this looks A LOT more like vintage Autavia's than any Speedmaster I've ever seen. In fact, it looks closer (the case in particular) to Seamasters than Speedmasters.

A great looking Zodiac BTW. We should have a Zodiac Scan Day here soon@

:"I think the difference between

:this ad and previous ad's is that picturing

:Steve McQueen with a new Monaco

:"Classic" model is ok... McQueen

:made the original famous. Fangio had nothing

:at all to do with this Carrera, it's:

:marketing BS and disuades me from buying an

:example rather than compel me to buy one."

i don't disagree really. i'm fairly young and have grown up being bombarded by false marketing...the result is i don't even bother paying much attention to any of it. i could see and understand why some would be irritated, or even mad by this marketing, but it simply doesn't persuade me one way or the other. like i said though that's just me.

I'm not angered or effected by bad marketing, I just percieve and acknowldege gifted and talented marketing when I see it. TAG-Heuer's marketing in my opinion is lacking.

:"I think there are better names and endorsement

:"faces" for this model as I said earlier..."

after reading your first posts on this topic....you convinced me easily into agreeing with you. your points are all well made and make sense, to me at least.

If only TAG-Heuer would get with the program!

: "Secondly, this is obviously a good

: sized watch... Why? Take a gander at the gap

: between the date window and the outer ring

: of the dial... Here is my (non-)Pasadena

: 7750: Here's the new TAG-Heuer Carrera

: automatic (yet again):"

yep i see what you mean. to me at 38mm-41mm would be perfect for this watch, but alot of people like bigger, so..........i would assume that tag has the research data showing what the target market of this particular watch wants size wise??

Big eatches have been the popular style the past 5-10 years. TAG Seems to be capitalizing upon this.

: "There is a lot more space between the edge of

: the dial and the date window. I'm thinking

: this new Carrera is at least a 40mm watch

: and it could easily be in the 42mm range and

: even possibly bigger.

: I hope that TAG changes the color scheme of the

: date wheel to be white on black as I think

: that would really look much cooler. --"

yes, i think you are right on, about the sizing, makes sense. yeah i agree on the date wheel color scheme also. thanks for the lesson, it was fun and informative.

:"Chuck"

j.h.

Thank you for your thoughts...

-- Chuck