Kav Posts: (#8136) Hi DATE: 2/3/05 01:14 GMT

Hi Chuck,

In cases like this, for "outsiders" like me it is better to not say anything, since it could make matters worse.

You are probably right about that, I hear where you're coming from...

But I have seen too many people leaving many forums because of a misunderstanding and I miss thier posts and I wouln't like to see it happen in our little community. Everyone has something to offer and none is spare.

Understood. I'd rather not have to post what I had to today, but the alternative is not acceptable.

It is a good thing you didn't delete the post, although you could. It shows straightness.

I hate deleting posts, I hate modifying them even more, and I really strongly dislike having to talk/type/sound like a moderator... In a polite society people act with politeness. In this case AMH failed to do so. So I did what I had to do.

But I believe the tone of your message was a bit too harsh.

I was aiming for firm, if it came across as harsh, I'll live with it. Perhaps the point will be indelible.

You reacted like AMH intentionaly tried to damage Hans reputation, which I believe is not the case.

I personally have no idea what AMH intended to do. What I do know is what he posted, and what he posted was and is unacceptable.

If someone makes a mistake according to the rules of the forum, I think it is better to just kindly point the mistake.

Were it the unintentional posting of a WTB, or a FS post here, I would have done as you suggest. This was not the case in this instance. This was the casting of aspersions towards someones character and integrity for no discernible reason.

Hans may be well known and very dear to you (and many others), but that should not mean different standards. Whould you react like that if the question was about someone you have never heard of?

I've posted similarly when people have behaved inappropriately, for example towards newbies, in the past here and elsewhere many many times as a moderator and not.

There are a very select few people out there who contribute a great deal to this hobby... Jeff, Steve Waddington, Derek Ziglar, Eric So, James Dowling, Bill Sohne, Frank Nicolajsen, Robert-Jan Broer, Ernie Romers, among others. Hans is one of those people. These people treat this hobby with a passion and put in Herculean efforts to help complete strangers, help make the hobby a better community for everyone.

We need more of these people and not less.

Posting phrases like �Hans Schrag put together� and �Or did Hans put this watch together being a clever business man selling off new old stock parts ;-)))� is as I stated at best highly speculative and likely libelous. If one doesn't know what that means, look it up or contact me directly.

Reading the seller's description and inferring either of AMH's statements is ludicrous.

For example, if I were to say:

�All fish live under water� and �a flounder is a fish�

I could see where someone might deduce that a flounder lives under water. However, I wouldn't expect someone to logically believe that if they bought Halibut it might rain, or Trout live in trees or that I don't love them any more (portions paraphrased from Monty Python)...

AMH has gone from asking about a bracelet to casting aspersions about "Hans Schrag put together ?" and "Or did Hans put this watch together being a clever business man selling off new old stock parts ;-))) ?�. There is no connect between the two.

If AMH didn't mean to cast those aspersions, he needs to post a clarification and an apology to Hans and the forum.

What if someone has a bad experience with someone you know and respect very much? Is one allowed to post such experiences or would they be considered as aspersion?

If someone has had a bad experience their first move should be immediate and direct discussion with the party he is experiencing the problem with. I am not the seller of this Beechcraft Calculator, neither is Jeff, Hans or you. In this case Hans isn't selling the watch, he hasn't commented on the watch, the dealer has stated that Hans worked upon it. That's all.

I'm not saying you are wrong (just overreacting a bit),

There is a difference between asking in a forum ,,Is Watchmaker X a good guy?,, and �"Hans Schrag put together ?� or "Or did Hans put this watch together being a clever business man selling off new old stock parts ;-))) ?"

Anyone who doesn't understand the difference, contact me directly via the email address at the beginning or end of this post. I will straighten ya out.

and I do get your point about carelessly questioning someones integrity.

In this world one's integrity is a very important thing.

I have spent as much or more time as anyone, learning & sharing I've discovered in this hobby and posting/publishing said information in an effort to allow people to educate themselves and become informed consumers. As long (or for as short) as I am moderator here I will not stand for the good guys getting slimed. And I'll still call a spade a spade when I see one regardless either way.

I'm just refering to you because as moderator, you have more power here and it is more up to you to resolve this misunderstanding. Please do so.

There is no misunderstanding on my part. What AMH posted is not acceptable. I have stated that clearly and repeatedly.

If AMH did not intend for his postings to sound like they did he needs to post a clarification and an apology.

Hell, it's not MY forum, and I do care if we lose a member, don't you?

Frankly if guest of this forum is going to go off halfcocked and cast aspersions for no logical reason I'm not entirely certain of the value we gain.

And it's not my forum either. I serve as the moderator of this forum gratis, at the pleasure of the owner. I've already offered to step down, as I will not tolerate it when people who go over and above the call to others, for little or no recompense are slimed for no logical reason.

Best regards

This topic is done. It's time to move forward.

Sincerely,